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Barry Leeming

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www.red11.org DAILY NEWS
Date: Sat Oct 23 03:32:11 GMT+00:00 1999
Mail: barry@www.red11.org

This Issue:
1. Mascots! - Bolton Reserve reports by The Old Fart
2. DMC - Atmosphere, or the lack of it - why and what to do.
3. Ask the StatMan - Who was United's first ever black player?
4. MEN - Nicky under the knife
7. Graham stakes claim to Old Trafford crown
8. MEN - Martin Edwards



Barry Comment:
First article today is The Old Fart's excellent account
of our win at Bolton Thursday night, enjoy!

ECL Group D  ** Manchester United **
Olympique de Marseille * NK Croatia Zagreb * SK Sturm Graz

Manchester United FC Champions League Squad List
 1 Mark John Bosnich      2 Gary Alexander Neville 3 Dennis Joseph Irwin
 4 David May              6 Jakob Stam             7 David Robert J Beckham
 8 Nicholas Butt          9 Andrew Alex. Cole      10 Edward Sheringham
11 Ryan Joseph Giggs     12 Philip Neville         14 Johan Jordi Cruyff
15 Lars Jesper Blomqvist 16 Roy Keane           17 Raimond RJH Van der Gouw
18 Paul Scholes          19 Dwight Yorke           20 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
21 Henning Berg          23 Michael Jamie Clegg    25 Josť Quinton Fortune
26 Massimo Taibi         31 Nicholas James Culkin  33 Mark Antony Wilson
34 Jonathan Greening

Group D         P   W   D   L   F   A  PTS
Marseille       4   3   0   1   6   3   9
Manchester Utd  4   2   1   1   5   2   7
Croatia Zagreb  4   1   1   2   4   3   4
SK Sturm Graz   4   1   0   3   1   8   3

Tue Sep 14 Manchester United    0-0 Croatia Zagreb   
Tue Sep 14 Marseille            2-0 SK Sturm Graz   
Wed Sep 22 Croatia Zagreb       1-2 Marseille   
Wed Sep 22 SK Sturm Graz        0-3 Manchester United
Wed Sep 29 Manchester United    2-1 Marseille   
Wed Sep 29 Croatia Zagreb       3-0 SK Sturm Graz 
Tue Oct 19 Marseille            1-0 Manchester United   
Tue Oct 19 SK Sturm Graz        1-0 Croatia Zagreb 
Wed Oct 27 7:45 NK Croatia           v Man Utd
Wed Oct 27 7:45 Sturm Graz           v Marseille
Tue Nov  2 7:45 Manchester United    v SK Sturm Graz   
Tue Nov  2 7:45 Marseille            v Croatia Zagreb 

Real Audio - Last weeks Daily News Sound Archive:
Click on INDEX at http://www.red11.org/sound


99/2000 fixtures/match reports are at

Mark Bosnich's Personal Details 



Previous News:
 BSKYB Takeover news/pics at http://www.red11.org/mufc/bskyb.htm
  Brian Kidd Press conference, pic, real audio
 Peter Schmeichel's last Season at United!

         Aston Villa  v  Wimbledon
       Bradford City  v  Leicester City
             Chelsea  v  Arsenal
 Sheffield Wednesday  v  Coventry City
         Southampton  v  Liverpool
   Tottenham Hotspur  v  Manchester United

*** FIXTURES ON 24/10/99 ***
             Everton  v  Leeds United
             Watford  v  Middlesbrough
     West Ham United  v  Sunderland


Pos Team                  P   W   D   L   F   A   GD  Pts
 1  Leeds United         11   8   1   2  21  12    9   25
 2  Manchester United    11   7   3   1  27  16   11   24
 3  Sunderland           11   7   2   2  20   9   11   23
 4  Arsenal              11   7   1   3  17  10    7   22
 5  Leicester City       11   6   2   3  19  14    5   20
 6  Chelsea               9   6   1   2  15   4   11   19
 7  Everton              11   5   2   4  17  14    3   17
 8  Tottenham Hotspur    10   5   2   3  17  14    3   17
 9  Aston Villa          11   5   2   4  12  11    1   17
10  West Ham United       9   5   1   3  11   8    3   16
11  Middlesbrough        11   5   0   6  13  15   -2   15
12  Liverpool            10   4   2   4  11  10    1   14
13  Coventry City        11   3   3   5  16  15    1   12
14  Southampton          10   3   2   5  17  21   -4   11
15  Wimbledon            11   2   5   4  17  25   -8   11
16  Watford              11   3   0   8   7  15   -8    9
17  Derby County         11   2   3   6  10  19   -9    9
18  Bradford City        10   2   2   6   6  16  -10    8
19  Newcastle United     11   2   1   8  21  27   -6    7
20  Sheffield Wednesday  11   1   1   9   8  27  -19    4

23-OCT-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Spurs  (FA Premier League, AWAY)
27-OCT-1999 [19:45] Manchester Utd. vs NK Croatia  (UEFA Champions League, AWAY)
30-OCT-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Aston Villa  (FA Premier League, HOME)
02-NOV-1999 [19:45] Manchester Utd. vs Sturm Graz  (UEFA Champions League, HOME)
06-NOV-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Leicester C  (FA Premier League, HOME)


UNITED Stats v All teams:
ALL FIXTURES at: http://www.red11.org/mufc/fix992000.htm
First Team Fixtures 1999/2000
All dates/times subject to change
Dates of possible cup ties also shown

Date        Opposition                        Score   Pos.   Attend.
15/07/99    Melbourne Australia   pre-season  W  2-0     -    60,000
18/07/99    Sydney    Australia   pre-season  W  1-0     -    78,000
21/07/99    Shanghai  Shenhua     pre-season  W  2-0     -    80,000
24/07/99    Hong Kong South China pre-season  W  2-0     -    40,000

 1/08/99    Arsenal   Wembley Charity Shield  L  1-2     -    70,185
 3/08/99    Omagh Town Omagh Bomb Fund        W  9-0     -     7,000
 4/08/99    Wigan Athletic friendly           W  2-0     -    15,000 
08/08/99    Everton                  Away PL  D  1-1    10    39,141
11/08/99    Sheffield Wednesday      Home PL  W  4-0     3    54,941
14/08/99    Leeds United             Home PL  W  2-0     1    55,187
22/08/99    Arsenal                  Away PL  W  2-1     1    38,147
25/08/99    Coventry City            Away PL  W  2-1     1    22,024 
27/08/99    Monaco - Lazio               ESC  L  0-1     -    15,223
30/08/99    Newcastle United         Home     W  5-1     1    55,190
11/09/99    Liverpool                Away     W  3-2     1    44,929
14/09/99    Croatia Zagreb           Home EC  D  0-0     -    53,250
18/09/99    Wimbledon                Home     D  1-1     1    55,189
22/09/99    Sturm Graz               Away EC  W  3-0     -    16,480
25/09/99    Southampton              Home     D  3-3     1    55,249
29/09/99    Marseille                Home EC  W  2-1     -    54,276
 3/10/99    Chelsea                  Away PL  L  0-5     2    34,909
11/10/99    Sir Alex Testimonial     Home F   L  2-4  LEGENDS 54,842      
13/10/99    Aston Villa              Away WC3 L  0-3     -    33,815
16/10/99    Watford                  Home PL  W  4-1     2    55,188
19/10/99    Marseille                Away EC  L  0-1     -    57,745 

23/10/99    Tottenham Hotspur        Away PL   15.00 
27/10/99    Croatia Zagreb           Away EC   19.45
30/10/99    Aston Villa              home PL   15.00
 2/11/99    Sturm Graz               Home EC   19.45 
 6/11/99    Leicester City           Home PL   15.00
20/11/99    Derby County             Away PL   15.00
24/11/99    ?     EC
27/11/99    Sheffield Wednesday      Away PL   15.00
30/11/99    Tokyo  Palmeiras         WCC       20.00
 4/12/99    Everton                  Home PL   15.00
 8/12/99    ?     EC
18/12/99    West Ham United          Away PL   15.00
26/12/99    Bradford City            Home PL   15.00
28/12/99    Sunderland               Away PL   20.00  "live on sky"
 3/01/2000  Middlesborough           Home PL   20.00
 JAN 05-14  Brazil WTC [3-4 games]
06/01/2000  Necaxa (Mexico)          Neut WTC  16.00
08/01/2000  Vasco da Gama (Brazil)   Away WTC  16.00
11/01/2000  South Melbourne (Australia) N WTC  16.00
22/01/2000  Arsenal                  Home PL   15.00
 5/02/2000  Coventry City            Home PL   15.00
12/02/2000  Newcastle United         Away PL   15.00
26/02/2000  Wimbledon                Away PL   15.00
 1/03/2000  ?   EC
 4/03/2000  Liverpool                Home PL   15.00
 8/03/2000  ?   EC
11/03/2000  Derby County             Home PL   15.00
15/03/2000  ?   EC
18/03/2000  Leicester City           Away PL   15.00
22/03/2000  ?   EC
25/03/2000  Bradford City            Away PL   15.00
 1/04/2000  West Ham United          Home PL   15.00
 5/04/2000  ?   EC qf i
 8/04/2000  Middlesborough           Away PL   15.00
15/04/2000  Sunderland               Home PL   15.00
19/04/2000  ?   EC qf ii
22/04/2000  Southampton              Away PL   15.00
24/04/2000  Chelsea                  Home PL   15.00
29/04/2000  West Ham United          Away PL   15.00
 3/05/2000  ?   EC sf i
 6/05/2000  Tottenham Hotspur        Home PL   15.00
10/05/2000  ?   EC sf ii
14/05/2000  Aston Villa              Away PL   15.00
24/05/2000  ?   EC Final



Click On pic - for latest interviews from OT
Subject: Mascots! - Bolton Reserve reports by The Old Fart My dad couldn't go last night so as I sat there on my own, just before the kick-off, I pondered on how the game (or the event) has changed since I started going to reserve matches with him in the mid-50's. It made me chuckle to realise that what had (subconsciously) gone through my head was that their mascot, a large lion called, I think, Lenny, looked more 'credible' than our mascot, Fred the bloody Red, a large devil in a Manchester United kit! When I was a boy we did have a mascot. He was, to me at least, an old man who dressed in ordinary clothes; ordinary at least, if you accept red and white clothing as ordinary. His name, from memory, was Irons, Jack Irons and when he passed on to that OT in the sky his lad (who was still an old man to me) took his place. Those two men were 'proper' mascots - not a lion or a bloody devil. It made me chuckle. It was 'sharp' last night. Those of you not familiar with north country colloquialisms will need an explanation that 'sharp' means cool without being cold. Definitely requiring a hat (if you are bald, like me) but not cold enough for gloves. But then those of you not familiar with Bolton either will also need to know that even on a midsummer day Bolton can always be described as 'sharp'! Talking of Bolton you can always tell when you are at a small-time club because the admission prices are high. At Leeds United it was free and it was a pound (from memory) at Anfield; last night it cost three pounds (and twenty pence for a programme - again they are usually free). The Manchester United 'regulars' were all there, along with enough others for there to be a good cheer when we scored, but the 'Pie-eaters' were out in force as the local papers (including last night's Manchester Evening News) had made much of our poor run of form and the possibility of a Bolton win! You've got to laugh at the no-marks, haven't you? When the teams were announced I was a little disappointed that Culkin had been preferred over the young (American?) lad Rachubka. I thought that the kid had done enough against Sunderland reserves to warrant another run out. But to be fair to Culkin he had a very good game, handling very well in difficult conditions (second half) and kicking well for a change. His kicking is even worse than Bozzy's and that is saying something. I noticed that they had him kicking for quite a while in the pre-match warm up; it paid off! We lined up with Chadwick wide right (he's been wide left in all the other matches I've seen him play) and Fortune wide left. This would suggest that they (the powers-that-be) consider that Fortune's best position is outside left. For what it's worth (very little in fact) I agree. Last night Fortune played well, making some good runs wide and also cutting inside to good effect. Immediately after the kick off the ball went to Gary Neville and their number ten (an older, more 'seasoned' player) came in and absolutely clattered him. Then he compounded that by waving his finger under Nev's nose and saying something (obviously "That's what you're going to get all night" or words to that effect). The referee did bugger all but both Nev and Maysie took note of the lad's number because he got several kicks up the arse as the game went on. Now that really was a 'gloryseeker'. We had most of the early play with Notman making some splendid runs both through and across the middle. In the sixth minute he should have scored when he was put through with only the goalie to beat. Their goalie made an excellent save in fact but when the ball rebounded to Greening he should have scored easily, but he chipped over the bar. I was a bit disappointed with Greening last night. Given that he has had a few runs with the big boys he should, perhaps, be showing a little bit more. I can't fault the lad's commitment, but the end result of what he does should produce far more than I witnessed. After ten minutes Chadwick made a splendid run down the right, dummied to cross, pulled the ball back and played a marvellous square ball for Fortune. Perhaps the pressure to do well (after a 'publicised' transfer) is getting to the young, South African kid because he showed no composure whatsoever in blasting the ball, first time, well over the bar. Poor effort. Then ten minutes later he redeemed himself when he took a difficult ball first time, on the run (magnificent control) and was on his way into the area when he was partially checked and the sodding ref did not play advantage (which he did on EVERY other occasion). Fortune probably would have scored and my heart ached for the lad. He showed similar control when combining with Notman some time later and was brought down in the area for what was a very clear penalty. Even the pie-eaters went quiet! Whether it was that incident, or an off-the-baller, I don't know but suddenly Fortune was struggling and it was obvious he would have to go off. I think it might be a bad one (hope not) because he was 'subbed' right on the stroke of half-time by Healy. One would expect them not to take him off until they had checked him properly at the half. Anyway the boy had to go off and I felt sorry for him as he had worked very had to some effect. Half time 0-0. It was 'sharp' as I said and so I went down for a meat and potato pie and a 'bovril' at half time. The pies were, surprisingly, supplied by a firm called Mahoneys of whom I had never heard, and not Hollands. Even more disappointing was that they described them as 'Potato and meat' pies which normally means ninety-nine percent spud and bugger all meat. It wasn't too bad as it happens. When I got back onto the terracing it was pouring down - with that fine rain which drifts on the wind (it was very windy too) and thus I had to move to the back of the stand in order to keep dry. Again we started well putting the Bolton defence under pressure and forcing a couple of corners. The first, hit long, was very well struck by Notman who saw his effort headed off the line. Then we got another and this time we took it short. Healy collected the return beat a man and played an excellent square ball to the near post where Chadwick managed to get a toe to the ball under pressure. 1-0 and the locals were muttering. No-marks like the pie-eaters make me laugh I have to say. They are full of it before the game and even during the game I heard the classic ABUism - "The ref is giving them everything - as usual". Bollocks he was. When we scored, all of a sudden everything in black and white was crap, from the tea lady (Elsie Reebok?), to the CEO upwards. Tossers. We now began to play with a lot of confidence and we were passing the ball around on the slick surface very well indeed. Our efforts were rewarded when, in the sixteenth minute, good pressure from Notman and Wilson had their defenders chasing their tails and letting the ball slip to Notman, JUST on-side, and he calmly prodded home. 2-0. Game over. After that it was, with a couple of exceptions, one-way traffic. We looked what we were, and are, far better than them. Greening had a couple of chances which he should have done better with and Higginbottom had a great chance, far post, after good work by Wilson. Anyway that was it and we registered a good, deserved and much needed win. Their programme notes made much of the fact that we are (or were) eleven points behind Newcastle United and that we had (to that point) only had one win. That brassed me off somewhat as it suggested that Bolton Wanderers reserves were setting the world alight - they're not, they are crap. Simple as that. Even Lenny the bloody Lion didn't look so clever at the final whistle. He looked more like a drowned rat than king of beasts to me! I had to run to me car (two hundred yards - nearly bloody killed me!) as it was teeming down when I left the ground. But it didn't dampen my spirits. I had witnessed a good game and a very good win against a local team who were, quite definitely, 'up for it' before the start of the match. The team was: Culkin: did very well, handling with confidence in wet (second half) conditions and under lights. Didn't have much to do to be honest. Clegg: played to his normal standard as far as I'm concerned. Read into that what you will! Higginbottom: good solid game again. Made some very good runs down the left flank and could have been given more of the ball had the midfielders shown a bit more imagination. Should have scored right at the end, far post. May: Looked like a lad coming back after a lay-off. Very shaky to begin with and might have gone with another referee. He was booked early doors (for about his fourth bookable offence!) and then brought down their 'nippy' centre-forward only for the ref to ignore the 'foul' and play on. As the game progressed he began to look more confident and that is understandable. I was just delighted to see the lad complete the ninety. I've got a lot of time for Maysie - a good and dependable club man. I just want to see him back with the big boys - perhaps after another run out with the kids. Neville: took that first minute clattering in his stride and gave a splendid, polished performance. Last night he reminded me so much of Martin Buchan and I can offer no praise higher than that. Good to see the boy back. Fortune: looked sharp early doors with some very intelligent running across the line. Would have scored if he had kept his head - he didn't sadly. I just hope I'm wrong and that the knock is not as bad as I fear. Wellens; MAN OF THE MATCH!! If you've read any of my other reserve reports you KNOW that I like this kid very much indeed. I have always praised his effort, but sometimes criticised his ball-skills. Last night he was magnificent. EVERYTHING went through the boy. He was 'showing' for the full ninety and hitting both short and long balls with perfection. I can't remember one bad pass in the ninety and he was brilliant. Maybe (just maybe) the run out with the big lads has given this kid the confidence he needs to fully express himself. Oh, I DO hope so! Wilson: as always a steady, if not outstanding, performance in midfield. The lad always works hard and you can't ask for any more. Greening: for me the only disappointment last night. He worked his socks off but I just expected that little bit more from him. Maybe I'm being too harsh. We shall see. Notman: after Wellens, my man. He really did impress with his running of the line. His control was excellent and he always made use of the ball, playing people in on both flanks. He was a bit unlucky on a couple of occasions and I was delighted for him when he got his simple tap-in. Of course you have to be 'there' to make that tap-in and that is a skill in itself. Great, yes great, performance from this lad last night. Chadwick: for me not as effective wide right (though he did swap flanks when Fortune left the field) as he is left. I was disappointed that he rarely pulled the ball back and went inside during the first half (he did once to good effect). Overall though he had a steady game and did not let himself down. I like this lad and hope for good things from him. Healy (sub for Fortune): had his normal steady game. Keep the faith, "The Old Fart"
Click On pic - for all latest pics from OT
Subject: DMC - Atmosphere, or the lack of it - why and what to do. Atmosphere, or the lack of it - why and what to do. There has been a lot made of the lack of atmosphere at Old Trafford this season, last season, the season before that and so on. The reasons for this are many fold, but in my opinion, very simple. It's fair to say that a return to the heady days of the 60's, 70's and 80's is probably out of the question, but let's not discount them altogether just yet. The game has moved on since the days of huge swaying terraces when a goal celebration would mean involuntary levitation, a trip to the toilet - a wet leg for the person in front, and a ticket - something you should have bought in order to travel on the train, but didn't. But the game has also moved away from it's roots. The supporters who would sing so passionately on the Stretford End have not only been moved, but they have also grown older and what's more important, they have not been replaced by younger supporters - they have been replaced by older, corporate ones instead. Money is naturally at the root of it all, just as it is at the root of every problem everywhere - well nearly! Money from television has poured into the game and naturally enough, those who have invested, want a return on their investment and they are more likely to get that return if the image of the game was changed. So, changed it was. The game has changed or been changed, depending on which way you prefer to look at it, and the cherry pickers have moved in to take all the fruit, but as usual are not feeding the roots. Result - the game is dying because it is losing it's youthful enthusiasm - not on the pitch (although there's also an argument there) but in the stands. I don't believe that the League chairmen sat down together one day and made a pact to remove the atmosphere from games, but the Taylor Report and European regulations saw to it that the stadia had to become all seater and this gave them the opportunity to bang up the prices and consequently remove the riff raff and replace them with the hoi poloi. This did not help the atmosphere one little bit, not that it seems to bother the hierarchy, and in my opinion, along with the TV effect, the all-seater stadium is to blame for the lack of crowd participation. Some may argue that this is a facile statement, but let's look at the facts at Old Trafford. Firstly there's the increase in cost. An all seater stadium houses less supporters than one which also has standing areas, thus, to retain the same revenue, the price for tickets has to rise. The prices didn't just rise they disappeared into the stratosphere and with them went those who could not afford to pay. Unfortunately they tended to be those in the younger age range, namely teenage through to very early twenties. And they were also the one's who were more likely to join in with the singing and create an atmosphere. Once they had gone they were destined not to return. What with the necessity of a Season Ticket and the need to apply for any other seats five weeks in advance - and what teenager is going to be bothered with that - a whole generation is lost forever. The generation which would have been blooded on the Strettie - indoctrinated with the buzz and hooked for life. Those of us who stood on the Stretford End made our own rules - rules that worked. We chose where to stand and who to stand next to. Some of us went to games on our own and if we found ourselves next to a pain in the arse we had a simple solution - move, or move them. In an all seater, you are allocated a seat and that is where you stay. You may be fortunate enough to be amongst people who are like minded and want to encourage atmosphere or you may not - it's the luck of the draw. So when the Strettie was demolished and we were forced to re-locate we more or less took pot luck, even though there was a choice of area. In my own case, in K Stand, I sit amongst good people who I get on with very well, but hardly any of them join in with the singing and chanting unless there's been a goal, and even then only briefly. This is a source of constant frustration which would never have occurred in a standing section. These are all people who were already sitting in these seats when the Stretford was taken from us. In other words they had already chosen to be there because they preferred to sit and watch rather than stand and participate. Fair enough - the choice was theirs, they took it, but where was the choice for us ex Enders? So there's the moving around scenario which of course leads to those who are like minded banding together, leaving others to do likewise just as my match going compatriots had done in K Stand. Everyone knows that the atmosphere grows when those of like minds are together. It's no good having the likes of Boylie over in J Stand doing his nut trying to get people motivated when those of us who are likely to be encouraged are far away and those in between are wondering why he's even bothering. Banding together in large groups encourages everyone and the noise that is generated is louder because of the numbers involved and thus more likely to encourage more to join in. It's a domino effect which can circulate around the ground. The other factor is that the closer packed together you are the more difficult it is for those around not to join in with the singing and so the noise spreads quicker - something Kevin Moran talks about in the latest Red News. I'm not advocating huge standing terraces as we once had all over the country, but there is a definite case for smaller areas to be made available to those who have a desire to stand. Not that I'm making a case for the, standing leads to atmosphere theory, as clearly it is not necessarily true, but banding together in large groups of like minded supporters definitely does. If the two could be linked then that would be the answer. Standing areas also lead to more space becoming available and so the admittance price would hopefully be cheaper and we may just encourage some of the lost generation back, but that may already be wishful thinking. And one final point on this to link it back to television - isn't it true that they need the atmosphere too in order to attract the audience, or will they eventually resort to canned atmosphere just as they have done with canned laughter? So let's consider the money question. The game has been made more accessible to the 'new fan' through television. These 'new fans' are just that - they are not genuine supporters. They are in effect hangers-on, make hay while the sun shiners, corporate jollyites, sightseers and tourists. They will never be atmosphere hunters, gatherers or creators, more - get the eye glasses out theatre goers. On the one hand every club now needs some of these new wavers because it is they who spend money by the sack load in the megastore thus filling coffers that you or I would never fill in a million years. But they could be redirected to merchandise elsewhere in the high street and don't really need to go to the games. In the same way the merchandising arm of the club is also necessary as it brings in tons of cash which helps Martin to increase his income to £662,000 per year and we all know he needs to do this because he hasn't got much in the bank (poor lad). It theoretically also helps buy players when necessary and pay the going rate, but I'm not going to get into the question of wages right now! Personally I have no problem with merchandising, as you buy if you want to, you don't if you don't want to. No-one is actually forced into parting with any money for merchandise, it's all freedom of choice. It's a live and let live sort of thing for me, if people want to wear the Sharp shirt, it's up to them. What I do object to is the lack of atmosphere and I think the attitude of the day tripper does relate to this. There is a situation now in the first three rows of the scoreboard end (OK - East Lower) where the day trippers predominate. These new wavers come to stare at the caged beasts behind them who are trying to whip up an atmosphere. Surely the solution would be to make this part of the ground into a 'singing section' (hang on is that a pig flying past my window?) move the trippers to a 'safer' part of the ground where they can drink their coke, feed their babies and eat their popcorn and everybody would be happy. And if we could also have a standing section (a safe standing section) at the same time, where those who would dare to sing and chant and be amongst friends, then maybe, just maybe, the atmosphere would return. The genuine supporters who want to make a noise would then have their part of the ground just as those who wish to sit have theirs, families have theirs, execs have theirs and the corporate jollyites have theirs. It's not too much to ask is it? But briefly coming back to Martin, it amused me to read in the article posted earlier when he said: "The Italian clubs don't necessarily run their businesses to make a profit either. Very often they have got individual entrepreneurs who bail them out. They are either backed by very big companies or wealthy individuals and so when they get into debt the owners rescue them. "You have only got to look at Inter Milan where Massimo Moratti has put something like £30m of his own money into the club. They haven't got the restrictions that we have and they run them like their individual fiefdoms. We can't compete with that." And how much money have you made out of the club, how much have you put back and how much do you take out a year then Martin? Did you really think about what you were going to say before you said it (again) and has it occurred to you that you may have dropped a bit of a bollock there? Maybe your next lucid moments could be devoted to letting us know when you're going to relinquish your grip on our great club before you do any more harm. DMC http://www.red11.org/reditorial E-mail DMC here: barry@www.red11.org
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Subject: Ask the StatMan - Who was United's first ever black player? Submitted by: Misio Borzyskowski Email address: mborzyskowski@yahoo.com Subject: Ask the StatMan visitor_country: Australia visitor_age: 16 question: Who was United's first ever black player? Also, what is Jaap Stam's real weight?; I have read it is 13st5lbs but I'm 13st and he looks twice as big as me! ============================================================================ United's first black player was Dennis Walker, who made his one and only appearance at Nottingham Forest in a Division 1 fixture on May 20th 1963. Since then, Remi Moses, Paul McGrath, Laurie Cunningham, Garth Crooks, Viv Anderson, Paul Ince, Danny Wallace, Paul Parker, Dion Dublin, John O'Kane, Andy Cole, Wes Brown and Dwight Yorke have all made first team appearances for United. According to the Official Yearbook, Jaap Stam weighs 13st 9lb. He is 6ft 3in tall. Having met the guy, my theory is that he becomes the 'Incredible Hulk' when he puts on his United shirt and runs out!
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Subject: MEN - Nicky under the knife BY STUART MATHIESON NICKY Butt has had a hernia operation after gritting his teeth through a painful season long battle with the injury. The Manchester United midfielder was booked in for surgery immediately after he returned from Champions' League duty in Marseille and is now ruled out of action for around six weeks. The 24-year-old's red card against Chelsea at the beginning of the month has given the Reds' a window of opportunity to get Butt's injury problem fixed. The player begins his three-match ban against Spurs at White Hart Lane tomorrow and wouldn't have been available in the Premiership to Sir Alex Ferguson until the Derby County match at Pride Park on November 20 at the earliest. Following the hernia op he is unlikely to be back in action until December. ``Nicky has been carrying the hernia injury all season,'' Reds' boss Fergie revealed. ``He's carried on and played through the pain and has done very well to play through it. But it gets to a point where you have got to have the operation soon and this was a chance to do it at a time when he won't miss too many matches. ``He'll be suspended for Spurs and home matches against Aston Villa and Leicester anyway and then there is the international week break in November. So in effect by the time he is back all he could have missed are the European matches against Croatia Zagreb and Sturm Graz. ``With Roy Keane now back from his knee trouble it has given us the chance to get Nicky Butt sorted out.'' United and England youngster Wes Brown is also recovering from surgery this week. He underwent an operation on Monday on his cruciate knee ligament injury. The 20-year-old damaged his cruciate in training on the eve of the season but United put an operation on ice to see if they could avoid the surgeon's knife for Brown. ``Because he's young we thought Wes may have come back with the normal remedial work,'' says Fergie. ``He did well but when it came to playing football there was no point going any further and he had to have the operation. He is young and the treatment is so advanced these days he'll be okay but he'll be out for the rest of the season.''
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Subject: GIVE UNITED FA CUP BYES URGES GRAHAM George Graham has added his voice to the campaign to have Manchester United reinstated in the FA Cup. Tottenham manager Graham, whose team face the Treble winners at White Hart Lane, feels it will set a bad precedent to let United opt out of the prestigious trophy they won last season. He reckons United should be given a bye for the early stages, which would enable them to play in the FIFA World Club Championship and then return to defend the FA Cup. "I am disappointed, like a lot of other people, that Manchester United are not in the FA Cup," said Graham. "I still think things could have been structured so that they could have come in at a later stage, as has happened for Real Madrid in Spain." He added: "It wouldn't have bothered me to see United given a bye for two rounds because I'd rather have them in it than not. "A lot of people would say that is unfair, but for the good of the tournament you want every club in it. It happens in the Worthington Cup. "Once you get one club pulling out you start to wonder if we are getting the thin end of the wedge and question whether will it happen again in the future. "The FA Cup is special and it should be special." Graham and United manager Alex Ferguson are the two most successful managers currently in the Premiership, and are also close friends. Although Ferguson has won it all in his glorious reign at Old Trafford, fellow Scot Graham has an impressive record with six major trophies in eight years at Arsenal and the Worthington Cup in his first season at White Hart Lane. Graham feels he was ahead of Ferguson while he was in charge at Highbury and, if he hadn't had his reign cut short by the infamous 'bungs' scandal, reckons he may have outstripped his friend and rival's achievements in recent seasons. "It could have happened, looking back on it," said Graham. "Maybe if I had pushed the Highbury board into spending some money, but I was getting fantastic success on low spending and low salaries and maybe I should have done things differently. But the board curbed my spending."
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Subject: UNITED FANS SLAM EDWARDS Manchester United fans slammed Old Trafford chairman Martin Edwards for expressing misgivings over keeping manager Sir Alex Ferguson at the club after his contract expires in three years' time. Edwards has doubts about whether Ferguson would be able to adapt to not being in day-to-day charge. But Manchester United Independent Supporters Association spokesman Andy Walsh described Edwards' intervention as "inappropriate". Edwards said: "If he (Ferguson) is still there in the background with all the success he has had, is that going to be a comfort or a hindrance to any successor? "Secondly, is that something Sir Alex wants? "It would be very difficult for him to be there without actually feeling a need to be involved. "He is a hands-on person and I think it would be difficult for him to resist that - but we have got three years to think about it and he will have a view on it, and we will have a view on it nearer the time." But Walsh replied: "I would question why such a statement was made at this time. "Alex Ferguson is quite clearly an expert in his field and you would think that any company or football club would want somebody of his expertise to remain involved. "But really it remains quite a baffling and inappropriate statement to be made at this stage and supporters would want to know why such a statement has been made. "Talks between Alex Ferguson and the board should be made privately."
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Subject: Graham stakes claim to Old Trafford crown George Graham, the next best British manager after Sir Alex Ferguson, yesterday cleverly staked his claim to be the Old Trafford legend's successor. Less than 24 hours after the rift between Sir Alex and Manchester United chairman Martin Edwards appeared to reach the point of no return, Graham chose to throw his own glittering credentials on the table for the European champions' consideration. As he prepared his Spurs team for battle with Sir Alex's side today, he cast an eye across London to the clash between his old club Arsenal and Chelsea and used the situation to rebuke the club which sacked him while simultaneously emphasising his own potential. Graham, a great admirer of his fellow Scot and two years younger at 54, believes that had he stayed at Arsenal he would have become an even more successful manager than Sir Alex. He thinks he would have brought enough Highbury glory to eclipse the glow in which United now bask. In eight years Graham won six trophies for the Gunners before he was dismissed four years ago after the bungs scandal. He said: 'I could have gone on to achieve more than Alex, if I had stayed at Arsenal. Looking back, if I had pushed the board at that time, and spent more money, then I believe it could have happened. I was getting fantastic success, not only a low spending budget but on low salaries paid to players. 'Maybe I should have done it differently. We joined clubs at around the same time and I think I was just ahead of him when I left. I won six trophies but Alex has gone on to prove to be the best manager of the present time.' Graham has already won the Worthington Cup in his first season at White Hart Lane and, with Sir Alex's long-term future at United the subject of speculation, would be the only British manager equipped to carry on the work now under way at Old Trafford. He has the characteristics necessary to ensure the present United dynasty continues working to the same approach - success based on discipline, hard work, and abundant skill. Both managers joined their clubs in 1986. By the time he left, Graham had won two League titles, one FA Cup, two League Cups, and the Cup-winners' Cup. Sir Alex's then record was two championships, two FA Cups, one league cup, and one Cup-winners' Cup. Sir Alex is now only one big offer away from ending his 13-year reign at Old Trafford after chairman Martin Edwards' declaration that United's manager may not be asked to stay beyond his current contract. Sir Alex, in his refusal to be deflected from his quest to make United the top team in Europe, constantly turned down regular offers from major European clubs in recent years - and even one from England. He envisaged stepping up eventually to a role as general manager. Now friends are whispering that he is so upset by Edwards' suggestion that he might then be as much of a hindrance as a help to his successor that he is unlikely to see out the remaining two-and-a-half years of his contract.
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Subject: MEN - Martin Edwards SIR Alex Ferguson's hopes of moving upstairs at Manchester United are today in jeopardy after chairman Martin Edwards outlined how he sees the Old Trafford hierarchy in the millennium. The treble-winning Reds' boss and his multi-millionaire chief executive appear to be on collision course over the way forward for 2002 when Fergie's contract is up and he ends his 16-year term in office. The Scot has made no secret of the fact that when his managerial reign voluntarily concludes in three years' time he'd love a job for life at Old Trafford in some capacity. But Edwards has cast grave doubts on Fergie getting his wish after admitting that the `hands-on' style of the United manager could cause conflict with the incoming new boss. The Reds' chairman appears keen to avoid the `Busby syndrome' which caused difficulties in the early 70s. The potential clash drives another wedge between the two most influential figures at Old Trafford. Fergie admitted in his recent autobiography to ``serious strains'' in the relationship and that the days of ``constant healthy dialogue'' had gone. Asked about Fergie's future beyond 2002 and if Edwards saw the manager staying on at Old Trafford, the chairman replied: ``That's a difficult one because there are a number of things to consider. ``First of all you'll remember when Sir Matt retired and somebody else came in. If Sir Alex is still there in the background, with all the success he has had, is that going to be a comfort or a hindrance to any successor? ``Secondly, is that something Sir Alex wants? It would be very difficult for him to be there without actually feeling a need to get involved. He is a hands-on person and I think it would be difficult for him to resist that. ``We have got three years to think about it and he will have a view on it, and we will have a view on it nearer the time.'' Ferguson will now be wondering if that view will have altered from the Old Trafford hierarchy's opinion in 1995, during contract negotiations, that a future upstairs wouldn't be on offer. In his autobiography Fergie reveals: ``It was made plain to me that having a role in the club after I retired as manager was totally out of the question.'' Nobody is more aware of the trauma of following a successful Manchester United manager than Wilf McGuinness. Two years after Sir Matt Busby steered the Reds to their first ever European Cup triumph at Wembley in 1968 the Scot retired as United manager. Former player and reserve coach Wilf was appointed as his successor from within. He lasted just seven traumatic months between June '70 and December before he was removed from the role and demoted to trainer-coach of the reserves. Despite his own difficult experience McGuinness believes United can't afford to allow Fergie's deep well of knowledge to be left untapped by United after 2002. ``Sir Alex has a wealth of experience and United don't want to cut that out. There has to be room somewhere for him be it on the board or in some other capacity. Something could work. He added: ``However, if there is a role for him then they would have to be very specific about it and ensure that it didn't cross over with what the new manager was doing. ``I don't think it could be a general manager position like Sir Matt's was for instance. ``I needed somebody when I took over because I was only 31 at the time I got the job. But the bad side of it was that there were too many grey areas. Sir Matt's role crossed over into my position now and again.''
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Subject: REDS BREEZE PAST BOLTON Friday, October 22, 1999 09:18 Defenders Gary Neville and David May were back in action last night for United Reserves at the Reebok Stadium. Both, who had been sidelined for a considerable time, will be hoping that this will signal the end of their respective injury nightmares. Neville has been unavailable since early in September when he was substituted in the first half of England's Euro 2000 qualifier in Poland. The time since has seen him attempting to throw off the effects of a groin injury. May has been out of action even longer with a knee injury which forced him out of a pre-season friendly at Wigan. Their return, and they both negotiated the full ninety-minutes, will be greeted with some delight by Sir Alex Ferguson. England's Kevin Keegan will also be pleased to see a fully-repaired Neville lining-up for United again as he continues to build his strategy for November's make-or-break play-off tussles with Scotland. Their inclusion for last night's Reserve fixture at Bolton came as a welcome boost to the side's flagging fortunes for they hadn't won since mid-September. United always looked to have the edge, but Bolton never go down without a struggle when the Reds are in town and it wasn't until the second half was nine minutes old that the breakthrough was finally made. David Healy, a first half substitute for Quinton Fortune, who had been withdrawn with what appeared to be an ankle problem, crossed from the left for Luke Chadwick to score with a snap-shot past Wanderers' goalkeeper Matthew Glennon. United's second goal arrived eight minutes later when Alex Notman flicked his shot past Glennon following a moment of total confusion in the Wanderers' defence. Bolton did have their opportunities to find the net but their best chances were spurned by Neil Gregson, Bob Taylor and Gordon Smith. UNITED: Culkin, Clegg, Higginbotham, May, Neville G., Fortune (sub: Healy), Wellens, Wilson, Greening, Notman, Chadwick. Subs not used: Curtis, Rachubka, Twiss, O'Shea.
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