www.red11.org DAILY NEWS
Date: Sat Oct 23 03:32:11 GMT+00:00 1999
1. Mascots! - Bolton Reserve reports by The Old Fart
2. DMC - Atmosphere, or the lack of it - why and what to do.
3. Ask the StatMan - Who was United's first ever black player?
4. MEN - Nicky under the knife
5. GIVE UNITED FA CUP BYES URGES GRAHAM
6. UNITED FANS SLAM EDWARDS
7. Graham stakes claim to Old Trafford crown
8. MEN - Martin Edwards
9. REDS BREEZE PAST BOLTON
MANCHESTER UNITED DAILY NEWS Saturday 23rd Oct 1999:
First article today is The Old Fart's excellent account
of our win at Bolton Thursday night, enjoy!
ECL Group D ** Manchester United **
Olympique de Marseille * NK Croatia Zagreb * SK Sturm Graz
Manchester United FC Champions League Squad List
1 Mark John Bosnich 2 Gary Alexander Neville 3 Dennis Joseph Irwin
4 David May 6 Jakob Stam 7 David Robert J Beckham
8 Nicholas Butt 9 Andrew Alex. Cole 10 Edward Sheringham
11 Ryan Joseph Giggs 12 Philip Neville 14 Johan Jordi Cruyff
15 Lars Jesper Blomqvist 16 Roy Keane 17 Raimond RJH Van der Gouw
18 Paul Scholes 19 Dwight Yorke 20 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
21 Henning Berg 23 Michael Jamie Clegg 25 Josť Quinton Fortune
26 Massimo Taibi 31 Nicholas James Culkin 33 Mark Antony Wilson
34 Jonathan Greening
Group D P W D L F A PTS
Marseille 4 3 0 1 6 3 9
Manchester Utd 4 2 1 1 5 2 7
Croatia Zagreb 4 1 1 2 4 3 4
SK Sturm Graz 4 1 0 3 1 8 3
Tue Sep 14 Manchester United 0-0 Croatia Zagreb
Tue Sep 14 Marseille 2-0 SK Sturm Graz
Wed Sep 22 Croatia Zagreb 1-2 Marseille
Wed Sep 22 SK Sturm Graz 0-3 Manchester United
Wed Sep 29 Manchester United 2-1 Marseille
Wed Sep 29 Croatia Zagreb 3-0 SK Sturm Graz
Tue Oct 19 Marseille 1-0 Manchester United
Tue Oct 19 SK Sturm Graz 1-0 Croatia Zagreb
Wed Oct 27 7:45 NK Croatia v Man Utd
Wed Oct 27 7:45 Sturm Graz v Marseille
Tue Nov 2 7:45 Manchester United v SK Sturm Graz
Tue Nov 2 7:45 Marseille v Croatia Zagreb
Real Audio - Last weeks Daily News Sound Archive:
Click on INDEX at http://www.red11.org/sound
99/2000 fixtures/match reports are at
Mark Bosnich's Personal Details
MANCHESTER UNITED STATS v ALL teams on the Web
BSKYB Takeover news/pics at http://www.red11.org/mufc/bskyb.htm
Brian Kidd Press conference, pic, real audio
Peter Schmeichel's last Season at United!
*** FIXTURES TODAY ***
Aston Villa v Wimbledon
Bradford City v Leicester City
Chelsea v Arsenal
Sheffield Wednesday v Coventry City
Southampton v Liverpool
Tottenham Hotspur v Manchester United
*** FIXTURES ON 24/10/99 ***
Everton v Leeds United
Watford v Middlesbrough
West Ham United v Sunderland
*** CONDENSED LEAGUE TABLE AS AT 18/10/99 ***
Pos Team P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Leeds United 11 8 1 2 21 12 9 25
2 Manchester United 11 7 3 1 27 16 11 24
3 Sunderland 11 7 2 2 20 9 11 23
4 Arsenal 11 7 1 3 17 10 7 22
5 Leicester City 11 6 2 3 19 14 5 20
6 Chelsea 9 6 1 2 15 4 11 19
7 Everton 11 5 2 4 17 14 3 17
8 Tottenham Hotspur 10 5 2 3 17 14 3 17
9 Aston Villa 11 5 2 4 12 11 1 17
10 West Ham United 9 5 1 3 11 8 3 16
11 Middlesbrough 11 5 0 6 13 15 -2 15
12 Liverpool 10 4 2 4 11 10 1 14
13 Coventry City 11 3 3 5 16 15 1 12
14 Southampton 10 3 2 5 17 21 -4 11
15 Wimbledon 11 2 5 4 17 25 -8 11
16 Watford 11 3 0 8 7 15 -8 9
17 Derby County 11 2 3 6 10 19 -9 9
18 Bradford City 10 2 2 6 6 16 -10 8
19 Newcastle United 11 2 1 8 21 27 -6 7
20 Sheffield Wednesday 11 1 1 9 8 27 -19 4
23-OCT-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Spurs (FA Premier League, AWAY)
27-OCT-1999 [19:45] Manchester Utd. vs NK Croatia (UEFA Champions League, AWAY)
30-OCT-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Aston Villa (FA Premier League, HOME)
02-NOV-1999 [19:45] Manchester Utd. vs Sturm Graz (UEFA Champions League, HOME)
06-NOV-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Leicester C (FA Premier League, HOME)
*** TEAM RESULTS - MANCHESTER UNITED -
UNITED Stats v All teams:
ALL FIXTURES at: http://www.red11.org/mufc/fix992000.htm
First Team Fixtures 1999/2000
All dates/times subject to change
Dates of possible cup ties also shown
Date Opposition Score Pos. Attend.
15/07/99 Melbourne Australia pre-season W 2-0 - 60,000
18/07/99 Sydney Australia pre-season W 1-0 - 78,000
21/07/99 Shanghai Shenhua pre-season W 2-0 - 80,000
24/07/99 Hong Kong South China pre-season W 2-0 - 40,000
1/08/99 Arsenal Wembley Charity Shield L 1-2 - 70,185
3/08/99 Omagh Town Omagh Bomb Fund W 9-0 - 7,000
4/08/99 Wigan Athletic friendly W 2-0 - 15,000
08/08/99 Everton Away PL D 1-1 10 39,141
11/08/99 Sheffield Wednesday Home PL W 4-0 3 54,941
14/08/99 Leeds United Home PL W 2-0 1 55,187
22/08/99 Arsenal Away PL W 2-1 1 38,147
25/08/99 Coventry City Away PL W 2-1 1 22,024
27/08/99 Monaco - Lazio ESC L 0-1 - 15,223
30/08/99 Newcastle United Home W 5-1 1 55,190
11/09/99 Liverpool Away W 3-2 1 44,929
14/09/99 Croatia Zagreb Home EC D 0-0 - 53,250
18/09/99 Wimbledon Home D 1-1 1 55,189
22/09/99 Sturm Graz Away EC W 3-0 - 16,480
25/09/99 Southampton Home D 3-3 1 55,249
29/09/99 Marseille Home EC W 2-1 - 54,276
3/10/99 Chelsea Away PL L 0-5 2 34,909
11/10/99 Sir Alex Testimonial Home F L 2-4 LEGENDS 54,842
13/10/99 Aston Villa Away WC3 L 0-3 - 33,815
16/10/99 Watford Home PL W 4-1 2 55,188
19/10/99 Marseille Away EC L 0-1 - 57,745
23/10/99 Tottenham Hotspur Away PL 15.00
27/10/99 Croatia Zagreb Away EC 19.45
30/10/99 Aston Villa home PL 15.00
2/11/99 Sturm Graz Home EC 19.45
6/11/99 Leicester City Home PL 15.00
20/11/99 Derby County Away PL 15.00
24/11/99 ? EC
27/11/99 Sheffield Wednesday Away PL 15.00
30/11/99 Tokyo Palmeiras WCC 20.00
4/12/99 Everton Home PL 15.00
8/12/99 ? EC
18/12/99 West Ham United Away PL 15.00
26/12/99 Bradford City Home PL 15.00
28/12/99 Sunderland Away PL 20.00 "live on sky"
3/01/2000 Middlesborough Home PL 20.00
JAN 05-14 Brazil WTC [3-4 games]
06/01/2000 Necaxa (Mexico) Neut WTC 16.00
08/01/2000 Vasco da Gama (Brazil) Away WTC 16.00
11/01/2000 South Melbourne (Australia) N WTC 16.00
22/01/2000 Arsenal Home PL 15.00
5/02/2000 Coventry City Home PL 15.00
12/02/2000 Newcastle United Away PL 15.00
26/02/2000 Wimbledon Away PL 15.00
1/03/2000 ? EC
4/03/2000 Liverpool Home PL 15.00
8/03/2000 ? EC
11/03/2000 Derby County Home PL 15.00
15/03/2000 ? EC
18/03/2000 Leicester City Away PL 15.00
22/03/2000 ? EC
25/03/2000 Bradford City Away PL 15.00
1/04/2000 West Ham United Home PL 15.00
5/04/2000 ? EC qf i
8/04/2000 Middlesborough Away PL 15.00
15/04/2000 Sunderland Home PL 15.00
19/04/2000 ? EC qf ii
22/04/2000 Southampton Away PL 15.00
24/04/2000 Chelsea Home PL 15.00
29/04/2000 West Ham United Away PL 15.00
3/05/2000 ? EC sf i
6/05/2000 Tottenham Hotspur Home PL 15.00
10/05/2000 ? EC sf ii
14/05/2000 Aston Villa Away PL 15.00
24/05/2000 ? EC Final
Subject: Mascots! - Bolton Reserve reports by The Old Fart
My dad couldn't go last night so as I sat there on my own, just before the
kick-off, I pondered on how the game (or the event) has changed since I
started going to reserve matches with him in the mid-50's. It made me
chuckle to realise that what had (subconsciously) gone through my head was
that their mascot, a large lion called, I think, Lenny, looked more
'credible' than our mascot, Fred the bloody Red, a large devil in a
Manchester United kit! When I was a boy we did have a mascot. He was, to me
at least, an old man who dressed in ordinary clothes; ordinary at least, if
you accept red and white clothing as ordinary. His name, from memory, was
Irons, Jack Irons and when he passed on to that OT in the sky his lad (who
was still an old man to me) took his place. Those two men were 'proper'
mascots - not a lion or a bloody devil. It made me chuckle.
It was 'sharp' last night. Those of you not familiar with north country
colloquialisms will need an explanation that 'sharp' means cool without
being cold. Definitely requiring a hat (if you are bald, like me) but not
cold enough for gloves. But then those of you not familiar with Bolton
either will also need to know that even on a midsummer day Bolton can
always be described as 'sharp'! Talking of Bolton you can always tell when
you are at a small-time club because the admission prices are high. At
Leeds United it was free and it was a pound (from memory) at Anfield; last
night it cost three pounds (and twenty pence for a programme - again they
are usually free). The Manchester United 'regulars' were all there, along
with enough others for there to be a good cheer when we scored, but the
'Pie-eaters' were out in force as the local papers (including last night's
Manchester Evening News) had made much of our poor run of form and the
possibility of a Bolton win! You've got to laugh at the no-marks, haven't you?
When the teams were announced I was a little disappointed that Culkin had
been preferred over the young (American?) lad Rachubka. I thought that the
kid had done enough against Sunderland reserves to warrant another run out.
But to be fair to Culkin he had a very good game, handling very well in
difficult conditions (second half) and kicking well for a change. His
kicking is even worse than Bozzy's and that is saying something. I noticed
that they had him kicking for quite a while in the pre-match warm up; it
We lined up with Chadwick wide right (he's been wide left in all the other
matches I've seen him play) and Fortune wide left. This would suggest that
they (the powers-that-be) consider that Fortune's best position is outside
left. For what it's worth (very little in fact) I agree. Last night Fortune
played well, making some good runs wide and also cutting inside to good
Immediately after the kick off the ball went to Gary Neville and their
number ten (an older, more 'seasoned' player) came in and absolutely
clattered him. Then he compounded that by waving his finger under Nev's
nose and saying something (obviously "That's what you're going to get all
night" or words to that effect). The referee did bugger all but both Nev
and Maysie took note of the lad's number because he got several kicks up
the arse as the game went on. Now that really was a 'gloryseeker'.
We had most of the early play with Notman making some splendid runs both
through and across the middle. In the sixth minute he should have scored
when he was put through with only the goalie to beat. Their goalie made an
excellent save in fact but when the ball rebounded to Greening he should
have scored easily, but he chipped over the bar.
I was a bit disappointed with Greening last night. Given that he has had a
few runs with the big boys he should, perhaps, be showing a little bit
more. I can't fault the lad's commitment, but the end result of what he
does should produce far more than I witnessed.
After ten minutes Chadwick made a splendid run down the right, dummied to
cross, pulled the ball back and played a marvellous square ball for
Fortune. Perhaps the pressure to do well (after a 'publicised' transfer) is
getting to the young, South African kid because he showed no composure
whatsoever in blasting the ball, first time, well over the bar. Poor
effort. Then ten minutes later he redeemed himself when he took a difficult
ball first time, on the run (magnificent control) and was on his way into
the area when he was partially checked and the sodding ref did not play
advantage (which he did on EVERY other occasion). Fortune probably would
have scored and my heart ached for the lad. He showed similar control when
combining with Notman some time later and was brought down in the area for
what was a very clear penalty. Even the pie-eaters went quiet!
Whether it was that incident, or an off-the-baller, I don't know but
suddenly Fortune was struggling and it was obvious he would have to go off.
I think it might be a bad one (hope not) because he was 'subbed' right on
the stroke of half-time by Healy. One would expect them not to take him off
until they had checked him properly at the half. Anyway the boy had to go
off and I felt sorry for him as he had worked very had to some effect.
Half time 0-0.
It was 'sharp' as I said and so I went down for a meat and potato pie and a
'bovril' at half time. The pies were, surprisingly, supplied by a firm
called Mahoneys of whom I had never heard, and not Hollands. Even more
disappointing was that they described them as 'Potato and meat' pies which
normally means ninety-nine percent spud and bugger all meat. It wasn't too
bad as it happens. When I got back onto the terracing it was pouring down -
with that fine rain which drifts on the wind (it was very windy too) and
thus I had to move to the back of the stand in order to keep dry.
Again we started well putting the Bolton defence under pressure and forcing
a couple of corners. The first, hit long, was very well struck by Notman
who saw his effort headed off the line. Then we got another and this time
we took it short. Healy collected the return beat a man and played an
excellent square ball to the near post where Chadwick managed to get a toe
to the ball under pressure.
1-0 and the locals were muttering. No-marks like the pie-eaters make me
laugh I have to say. They are full of it before the game and even during
the game I heard the classic ABUism - "The ref is giving them everything -
as usual". Bollocks he was. When we scored, all of a sudden everything in
black and white was crap, from the tea lady (Elsie Reebok?), to the CEO
We now began to play with a lot of confidence and we were passing the ball
around on the slick surface very well indeed. Our efforts were rewarded
when, in the sixteenth minute, good pressure from Notman and Wilson had
their defenders chasing their tails and letting the ball slip to Notman,
JUST on-side, and he calmly prodded home. 2-0. Game over.
After that it was, with a couple of exceptions, one-way traffic. We looked
what we were, and are, far better than them. Greening had a couple of
chances which he should have done better with and Higginbottom had a great
chance, far post, after good work by Wilson.
Anyway that was it and we registered a good, deserved and much needed win.
Their programme notes made much of the fact that we are (or were) eleven
points behind Newcastle United and that we had (to that point) only had one
win. That brassed me off somewhat as it suggested that Bolton Wanderers
reserves were setting the world alight - they're not, they are crap. Simple
as that. Even Lenny the bloody Lion didn't look so clever at the final
whistle. He looked more like a drowned rat than king of beasts to me!
I had to run to me car (two hundred yards - nearly bloody killed me!) as it
was teeming down when I left the ground. But it didn't dampen my spirits. I
had witnessed a good game and a very good win against a local team who
were, quite definitely, 'up for it' before the start of the match.
The team was:
Culkin: did very well, handling with confidence in wet (second half)
conditions and under lights. Didn't have much to do to be honest.
Clegg: played to his normal standard as far as I'm concerned. Read into
that what you will!
Higginbottom: good solid game again. Made some very good runs down the left
flank and could have been given more of the ball had the midfielders shown
a bit more imagination. Should have scored right at the end, far post.
May: Looked like a lad coming back after a lay-off. Very shaky to begin
with and might have gone with another referee. He was booked early doors
(for about his fourth bookable offence!) and then brought down their
'nippy' centre-forward only for the ref to ignore the 'foul' and play on.
As the game progressed he began to look more confident and that is
understandable. I was just delighted to see the lad complete the ninety.
I've got a lot of time for Maysie - a good and dependable club man. I just
want to see him back with the big boys - perhaps after another run out with
Neville: took that first minute clattering in his stride and gave a
splendid, polished performance. Last night he reminded me so much of Martin
Buchan and I can offer no praise higher than that. Good to see the boy back.
Fortune: looked sharp early doors with some very intelligent running across
the line. Would have scored if he had kept his head - he didn't sadly. I
just hope I'm wrong and that the knock is not as bad as I fear.
Wellens; MAN OF THE MATCH!! If you've read any of my other reserve reports
you KNOW that I like this kid very much indeed. I have always praised his
effort, but sometimes criticised his ball-skills. Last night he was
magnificent. EVERYTHING went through the boy. He was 'showing' for the full
ninety and hitting both short and long balls with perfection. I can't
remember one bad pass in the ninety and he was brilliant. Maybe (just
maybe) the run out with the big lads has given this kid the confidence he
needs to fully express himself. Oh, I DO hope so!
Wilson: as always a steady, if not outstanding, performance in midfield.
The lad always works hard and you can't ask for any more.
Greening: for me the only disappointment last night. He worked his socks
off but I just expected that little bit more from him. Maybe I'm being too
harsh. We shall see.
Notman: after Wellens, my man. He really did impress with his running of
the line. His control was excellent and he always made use of the ball,
playing people in on both flanks. He was a bit unlucky on a couple of
occasions and I was delighted for him when he got his simple tap-in. Of
course you have to be 'there' to make that tap-in and that is a skill in
itself. Great, yes great, performance from this lad last night.
Chadwick: for me not as effective wide right (though he did swap flanks
when Fortune left the field) as he is left. I was disappointed that he
rarely pulled the ball back and went inside during the first half (he did
once to good effect). Overall though he had a steady game and did not let
himself down. I like this lad and hope for good things from him.
Healy (sub for Fortune): had his normal steady game.
Keep the faith,
"The Old Fart"
|Click On pic - for latest interviews from OT|
Subject: DMC - Atmosphere, or the lack of it - why and what to do.
Atmosphere, or the lack of it - why and what to do.
There has been a lot made of the lack of atmosphere at Old Trafford this
season, last season, the season before that and so on. The reasons for this
are many fold, but in my opinion, very simple.
It's fair to say that a return to the heady days of the 60's, 70's and 80's
is probably out of the question, but let's not discount them altogether
just yet. The game has moved on since the days of huge swaying terraces
when a goal celebration would mean involuntary levitation, a trip to the
toilet - a wet leg for the person in front, and a ticket - something you
should have bought in order to travel on the train, but didn't.
But the game has also moved away from it's roots. The supporters who would
sing so passionately on the Stretford End have not only been moved, but
they have also grown older and what's more important, they have not been
replaced by younger supporters - they have been replaced by older,
corporate ones instead.
Money is naturally at the root of it all, just as it is at the root of
every problem everywhere - well nearly! Money from television has poured
into the game and naturally enough, those who have invested, want a return
on their investment and they are more likely to get that return if the
image of the game was changed. So, changed it was.
The game has changed or been changed, depending on which way you prefer to
look at it, and the cherry pickers have moved in to take all the fruit, but
as usual are not feeding the roots. Result - the game is dying because it
is losing it's youthful enthusiasm - not on the pitch (although there's
also an argument there) but in the stands.
I don't believe that the League chairmen sat down together one day and made
a pact to remove the atmosphere from games, but the Taylor Report and
European regulations saw to it that the stadia had to become all seater and
this gave them the opportunity to bang up the prices and consequently
remove the riff raff and replace them with the hoi poloi.
This did not help the atmosphere one little bit, not that it seems to
bother the hierarchy, and in my opinion, along with the TV effect, the
all-seater stadium is to blame for the lack of crowd participation. Some
may argue that this is a facile statement, but let's look at the facts at
Firstly there's the increase in cost. An all seater stadium houses less
supporters than one which also has standing areas, thus, to retain the same
revenue, the price for tickets has to rise. The prices didn't just rise
they disappeared into the stratosphere and with them went those who could
not afford to pay. Unfortunately they tended to be those in the younger age
range, namely teenage through to very early twenties. And they were also
the one's who were more likely to join in with the singing and create an
Once they had gone they were destined not to return. What with the
necessity of a Season Ticket and the need to apply for any other seats five
weeks in advance - and what teenager is going to be bothered with that - a
whole generation is lost forever. The generation which would have been
blooded on the Strettie - indoctrinated with the buzz and hooked for life.
Those of us who stood on the Stretford End made our own rules - rules that
worked. We chose where to stand and who to stand next to. Some of us went
to games on our own and if we found ourselves next to a pain in the arse we
had a simple solution - move, or move them. In an all seater, you are
allocated a seat and that is where you stay. You may be fortunate enough to
be amongst people who are like minded and want to encourage atmosphere or
you may not - it's the luck of the draw.
So when the Strettie was demolished and we were forced to re-locate we more
or less took pot luck, even though there was a choice of area. In my own
case, in K Stand, I sit amongst good people who I get on with very well,
but hardly any of them join in with the singing and chanting unless there's
been a goal, and even then only briefly. This is a source of constant
frustration which would never have occurred in a standing section. These
are all people who were already sitting in these seats when the Stretford
was taken from us. In other words they had already chosen to be there
because they preferred to sit and watch rather than stand and participate.
Fair enough - the choice was theirs, they took it, but where was the choice
for us ex Enders?
So there's the moving around scenario which of course leads to those who
are like minded banding together, leaving others to do likewise just as my
match going compatriots had done in K Stand. Everyone knows that the
atmosphere grows when those of like minds are together. It's no good having
the likes of Boylie over in J Stand doing his nut trying to get people
motivated when those of us who are likely to be encouraged are far away and
those in between are wondering why he's even bothering.
Banding together in large groups encourages everyone and the noise that is
generated is louder because of the numbers involved and thus more likely to
encourage more to join in. It's a domino effect which can circulate around
The other factor is that the closer packed together you are the more
difficult it is for those around not to join in with the singing and so the
noise spreads quicker - something Kevin Moran talks about in the latest Red
News. I'm not advocating huge standing terraces as we once had all over the
country, but there is a definite case for smaller areas to be made
available to those who have a desire to stand. Not that I'm making a case
for the, standing leads to atmosphere theory, as clearly it is not
necessarily true, but banding together in large groups of like minded
supporters definitely does. If the two could be linked then that would be
Standing areas also lead to more space becoming available and so the
admittance price would hopefully be cheaper and we may just encourage some
of the lost generation back, but that may already be wishful thinking. And
one final point on this to link it back to television - isn't it true that
they need the atmosphere too in order to attract the audience, or will they
eventually resort to canned atmosphere just as they have done with canned
So let's consider the money question. The game has been made more
accessible to the 'new fan' through television. These 'new fans' are just
that - they are not genuine supporters. They are in effect hangers-on, make
hay while the sun shiners, corporate jollyites, sightseers and tourists.
They will never be atmosphere hunters, gatherers or creators, more - get
the eye glasses out theatre goers.
On the one hand every club now needs some of these new wavers because it is
they who spend money by the sack load in the megastore thus filling coffers
that you or I would never fill in a million years. But they could be
redirected to merchandise elsewhere in the high street and don't really
need to go to the games.
In the same way the merchandising arm of the club is also necessary as it
brings in tons of cash which helps Martin to increase his income to
£662,000 per year and we all know he needs to do this because he hasn't got
much in the bank (poor lad). It theoretically also helps buy players when
necessary and pay the going rate, but I'm not going to get into the
question of wages right now!
Personally I have no problem with merchandising, as you buy if you want to,
you don't if you don't want to. No-one is actually forced into parting with
any money for merchandise, it's all freedom of choice. It's a live and let
live sort of thing for me, if people want to wear the Sharp shirt, it's up
to them. What I do object to is the lack of atmosphere and I think the
attitude of the day tripper does relate to this. There is a situation now
in the first three rows of the scoreboard end (OK - East Lower) where the
day trippers predominate. These new wavers come to stare at the caged
beasts behind them who are trying to whip up an atmosphere.
Surely the solution would be to make this part of the ground into a
'singing section' (hang on is that a pig flying past my window?) move the
trippers to a 'safer' part of the ground where they can drink their coke,
feed their babies and eat their popcorn and everybody would be happy. And
if we could also have a standing section (a safe standing section) at the
same time, where those who would dare to sing and chant and be amongst
friends, then maybe, just maybe, the atmosphere would return.
The genuine supporters who want to make a noise would then have their part
of the ground just as those who wish to sit have theirs, families have
theirs, execs have theirs and the corporate jollyites have theirs. It's not
too much to ask is it?
But briefly coming back to Martin, it amused me to read in the article
posted earlier when he said:
"The Italian clubs don't necessarily run their businesses to make a profit
either. Very often they have got individual entrepreneurs who bail them
out. They are either backed by very big companies or wealthy individuals
and so when they get into debt the owners rescue them.
"You have only got to look at Inter Milan where Massimo Moratti has put
something like £30m of his own money into the club. They haven't got the
restrictions that we have and they run them like their individual fiefdoms.
We can't compete with that."
And how much money have you made out of the club, how much have you put
back and how much do you take out a year then Martin? Did you really think
about what you were going to say before you said it (again) and has it
occurred to you that you may have dropped a bit of a bollock there?
Maybe your next lucid moments could be devoted to letting us know when
you're going to relinquish your grip on our great club before you do any
E-mail DMC here: email@example.com
|Click On pic - for all latest pics from OT|
Subject: Ask the StatMan - Who was United's first ever black player?
Submitted by: Misio Borzyskowski
Email address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: Ask the StatMan
question: Who was United's first ever black player?
Also, what is Jaap Stam's real weight?;
I have read it is 13st5lbs but I'm 13st
and he looks twice as big as me!
United's first black player was Dennis Walker, who made his one and only appearance
at Nottingham Forest in a Division 1 fixture on May 20th 1963. Since then, Remi Moses,
Paul McGrath, Laurie Cunningham, Garth Crooks, Viv Anderson, Paul Ince, Danny Wallace,
Paul Parker, Dion Dublin, John O'Kane, Andy Cole, Wes Brown and Dwight Yorke have all
made first team appearances for United.
According to the Official Yearbook, Jaap Stam weighs 13st 9lb. He is 6ft 3in tall.
Having met the guy, my theory is that he becomes the 'Incredible Hulk' when he puts
on his United shirt and runs out!
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Subject: MEN - Nicky under the knife
BY STUART MATHIESON
NICKY Butt has had a hernia operation after gritting his teeth through a
painful season long battle with the injury. The Manchester United
midfielder was booked in for surgery immediately after he returned from
Champions' League duty in Marseille and is now ruled out of action for
around six weeks.
The 24-year-old's red card against Chelsea at the beginning of the month
has given the Reds' a window of opportunity to get Butt's injury problem
The player begins his three-match ban against Spurs at White Hart Lane
tomorrow and wouldn't have been available in the Premiership to Sir Alex
Ferguson until the Derby County match at Pride Park on November 20 at the
Following the hernia op he is unlikely to be back in action until December.
``Nicky has been carrying the hernia injury all season,'' Reds' boss Fergie
``He's carried on and played through the pain and has done very well to
play through it. But it gets to a point where you have got to have the
operation soon and this was a chance to do it at a time when he won't miss
too many matches.
``He'll be suspended for Spurs and home matches against Aston Villa and
Leicester anyway and then there is the international week break in
November. So in effect by the time he is back all he could have missed are
the European matches against Croatia Zagreb and Sturm Graz.
``With Roy Keane now back from his knee trouble it has given us the chance
to get Nicky Butt sorted out.''
United and England youngster Wes Brown is also recovering from surgery this
week. He underwent an operation on Monday on his cruciate knee ligament
The 20-year-old damaged his cruciate in training on the eve of the season
but United put an operation on ice to see if they could avoid the surgeon's
knife for Brown.
``Because he's young we thought Wes may have come back with the normal
remedial work,'' says Fergie.
``He did well but when it came to playing football there was no point going
any further and he had to have the operation. He is young and the treatment
is so advanced these days he'll be okay but he'll be out for the rest of
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Subject: GIVE UNITED FA CUP BYES URGES GRAHAM
George Graham has added his voice to the campaign to have Manchester United
reinstated in the FA Cup.
Tottenham manager Graham, whose team face the Treble winners at White Hart
Lane, feels it will set a bad precedent to let United opt out of the
prestigious trophy they won last season. He reckons United should be given
a bye for the early stages, which would enable them to play in the FIFA
World Club Championship and then return to defend the FA Cup.
"I am disappointed, like a lot of other people, that Manchester United are
not in the FA Cup," said Graham. "I still think things could have been
structured so that they could have come in at a later stage, as has
happened for Real Madrid in Spain."
He added: "It wouldn't have bothered me to see United given a bye for two
rounds because I'd rather have them in it than not.
"A lot of people would say that is unfair, but for the good of the
tournament you want every club in it. It happens in the Worthington Cup.
"Once you get one club pulling out you start to wonder if we are getting
the thin end of the wedge and question whether will it happen again in the
"The FA Cup is special and it should be special."
Graham and United manager Alex Ferguson are the two most successful
managers currently in the Premiership, and are also close friends.
Although Ferguson has won it all in his glorious reign at Old Trafford,
fellow Scot Graham has an impressive record with six major trophies in
eight years at Arsenal and the Worthington Cup in his first season at White
Hart Lane. Graham feels he was ahead of Ferguson while he was in charge at
Highbury and, if he hadn't had his reign cut short by the infamous 'bungs'
scandal, reckons he may have outstripped his friend and rival's
achievements in recent seasons.
"It could have happened, looking back on it," said Graham. "Maybe if I had
pushed the Highbury board into spending some money, but I was getting
fantastic success on low spending and low salaries and maybe I should have
done things differently. But the board curbed my spending."
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Subject: UNITED FANS SLAM EDWARDS
Manchester United fans slammed Old Trafford chairman Martin Edwards for
expressing misgivings over keeping manager Sir Alex Ferguson at the club
after his contract expires in three years' time.
Edwards has doubts about whether Ferguson would be able to adapt to not
being in day-to-day charge.
But Manchester United Independent Supporters Association spokesman Andy
Walsh described Edwards' intervention as "inappropriate".
Edwards said: "If he (Ferguson) is still there in the background with all
the success he has had, is that going to be a comfort or a hindrance to any
"Secondly, is that something Sir Alex wants?
"It would be very difficult for him to be there without actually feeling a
need to be involved.
"He is a hands-on person and I think it would be difficult for him to
resist that - but we have got three years to think about it and he will
have a view on it, and we will have a view on it nearer the time."
But Walsh replied: "I would question why such a statement was made at this
"Alex Ferguson is quite clearly an expert in his field and you would think
that any company or football club would want somebody of his expertise to
"But really it remains quite a baffling and inappropriate statement to be
made at this stage and supporters would want to know why such a statement
has been made.
"Talks between Alex Ferguson and the board should be made privately."
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Subject: Graham stakes claim to Old Trafford crown
George Graham, the next best British manager after Sir Alex Ferguson,
yesterday cleverly staked his claim to be the Old Trafford legend's
Less than 24 hours after the rift between Sir Alex and Manchester United
chairman Martin Edwards appeared to reach the point of no return, Graham
chose to throw his own glittering credentials on the table for the European
As he prepared his Spurs team for battle with Sir Alex's side today, he
cast an eye across London to the clash between his old club Arsenal and
Chelsea and used the situation to rebuke the club which sacked him while
simultaneously emphasising his own potential.
Graham, a great admirer of his fellow Scot and two years younger at 54,
believes that had he stayed at Arsenal he would have become an even more
successful manager than Sir Alex.
He thinks he would have brought enough Highbury glory to eclipse the glow
in which United now bask.
In eight years Graham won six trophies for the Gunners before he was
dismissed four years ago after the bungs scandal.
He said: 'I could have gone on to achieve more than Alex, if I had stayed
at Arsenal. Looking back, if I had pushed the board at that time, and spent
more money, then I believe it could have happened. I was getting fantastic
success, not only a low spending budget but on low salaries paid to players.
'Maybe I should have done it differently. We joined clubs at around the
same time and I think I was just ahead of him when I left. I won six
trophies but Alex has gone on to prove to be the best manager of the
Graham has already won the Worthington Cup in his first season at White
Hart Lane and, with Sir Alex's long-term future at United the subject of
speculation, would be the only British manager equipped to carry on the
work now under way at Old Trafford.
He has the characteristics necessary to ensure the present United dynasty
continues working to the same approach - success based on discipline, hard
work, and abundant skill. Both managers joined their clubs in 1986.
By the time he left, Graham had won two League titles, one FA Cup, two
League Cups, and the Cup-winners' Cup.
Sir Alex's then record was two championships, two FA Cups, one league cup,
and one Cup-winners' Cup.
Sir Alex is now only one big offer away from ending his 13-year reign at
Old Trafford after chairman Martin Edwards' declaration that United's
manager may not be asked to stay beyond his current contract.
Sir Alex, in his refusal to be deflected from his quest to make United the
top team in Europe, constantly turned down regular offers from major
European clubs in recent years - and even one from England. He envisaged
stepping up eventually to a role as general manager.
Now friends are whispering that he is so upset by Edwards' suggestion that
he might then be as much of a hindrance as a help to his successor that he
is unlikely to see out the remaining two-and-a-half years of his contract.
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Subject: MEN - Martin Edwards
SIR Alex Ferguson's hopes of moving upstairs at Manchester United are today
in jeopardy after chairman Martin Edwards outlined how he sees the Old
Trafford hierarchy in the millennium.
The treble-winning Reds' boss and his multi-millionaire chief executive
appear to be on collision course over the way forward for 2002 when
Fergie's contract is up and he ends his 16-year term in office.
The Scot has made no secret of the fact that when his managerial reign
voluntarily concludes in three years' time he'd love a job for life at Old
Trafford in some capacity.
But Edwards has cast grave doubts on Fergie getting his wish after
admitting that the `hands-on' style of the United manager could cause
conflict with the incoming new boss.
The Reds' chairman appears keen to avoid the `Busby syndrome' which caused
difficulties in the early 70s.
The potential clash drives another wedge between the two most influential
figures at Old Trafford.
Fergie admitted in his recent autobiography to ``serious strains'' in the
relationship and that the days of ``constant healthy dialogue'' had gone.
Asked about Fergie's future beyond 2002 and if Edwards saw the manager
staying on at Old Trafford, the chairman replied: ``That's a difficult one
because there are a number of things to consider.
``First of all you'll remember when Sir Matt retired and somebody else came
in. If Sir Alex is still there in the background, with all the success he
has had, is that going to be a comfort or a hindrance to any successor?
``Secondly, is that something Sir Alex wants? It would be very difficult
for him to be there without actually feeling a need to get involved. He is
a hands-on person and I think it would be difficult for him to resist that.
``We have got three years to think about it and he will have a view on it,
and we will have a view on it nearer the time.''
Ferguson will now be wondering if that view will have altered from the Old
Trafford hierarchy's opinion in 1995, during contract negotiations, that a
future upstairs wouldn't be on offer.
In his autobiography Fergie reveals: ``It was made plain to me that having
a role in the club after I retired as manager was totally out of the
Nobody is more aware of the trauma of following a successful Manchester
United manager than Wilf McGuinness.
Two years after Sir Matt Busby steered the Reds to their first ever
European Cup triumph at Wembley in 1968 the Scot retired as United manager.
Former player and reserve coach Wilf was appointed as his successor from
He lasted just seven traumatic months between June '70 and December before
he was removed from the role and demoted to trainer-coach of the reserves.
Despite his own difficult experience McGuinness believes United can't
afford to allow Fergie's deep well of knowledge to be left untapped by
United after 2002.
``Sir Alex has a wealth of experience and United don't want to cut that
out. There has to be room somewhere for him be it on the board or in some
other capacity. Something could work.
He added: ``However, if there is a role for him then they would have to be
very specific about it and ensure that it didn't cross over with what the
new manager was doing.
``I don't think it could be a general manager position like Sir Matt's was
``I needed somebody when I took over because I was only 31 at the time I
got the job. But the bad side of it was that there were too many grey
areas. Sir Matt's role crossed over into my position now and again.''
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Subject: REDS BREEZE PAST BOLTON
Friday, October 22, 1999 09:18
Defenders Gary Neville and David May were back in
action last night for United Reserves at the Reebok
Both, who had been sidelined for a considerable time, will
be hoping that this will signal the end of their respective
Neville has been unavailable since early in September
when he was substituted in the first half of England's Euro
2000 qualifier in Poland.
The time since has seen him attempting to throw off the
effects of a groin injury.
May has been out of action even longer with a knee injury
which forced him out of a pre-season friendly at Wigan.
Their return, and they both negotiated the full
ninety-minutes, will be greeted with some delight by Sir
England's Kevin Keegan will also be pleased to see a
fully-repaired Neville lining-up for United again as he
continues to build his strategy for November's
make-or-break play-off tussles with Scotland.
Their inclusion for last night's Reserve fixture at Bolton
came as a welcome boost to the side's flagging fortunes for
they hadn't won since mid-September.
United always looked to have the edge, but Bolton never go
down without a struggle when the Reds are in town and it
wasn't until the second half was nine minutes old that the
breakthrough was finally made.
David Healy, a first half substitute for Quinton Fortune, who
had been withdrawn with what appeared to be an ankle
problem, crossed from the left for Luke Chadwick to score
with a snap-shot past Wanderers' goalkeeper Matthew
United's second goal arrived eight minutes later when Alex
Notman flicked his shot past Glennon following a moment
of total confusion in the Wanderers' defence.
Bolton did have their opportunities to find the net but their
best chances were spurned by Neil Gregson, Bob Taylor
and Gordon Smith.
UNITED: Culkin, Clegg, Higginbotham, May, Neville G.,
Fortune (sub: Healy), Wellens, Wilson, Greening, Notman,
Chadwick. Subs not used: Curtis, Rachubka, Twiss,
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