www.red11.org DAILY NEWS
Date: Fri Oct 22 07:34:31 GMT+00:00 1999
1. Who do you consider to be the best player between Cantona & Best?
2. This is not a joke!! Comment from -Bill in Winnipeg
3. Sir Alex vs Sir Matt
4. UNITED PULLED OUT OF DEAL FOR RIVALDO
5. BBC - Man Utd cannot afford Rivaldo
6. NEVILLE'S ON COMEBACK TRAIL nullThursday news before Reserves game null
7. United cold war
8. Edwards on Fergie future ««
9. Blow to Ferguson's retirement scheme - Guardian
10. United still confident for crucial trip to Zagreb
MANCHESTER UNITED DAILY NEWS Friday 22nd Oct 1999:
I was out last night so no coverage of the Bolton Reserve match before tomorrow.
Today's issue full of all the Martin Edwards controversial stuff.
+ an excellent Busby v Fergie comparison?
ECL Group D ** Manchester United **
Olympique de Marseille * NK Croatia Zagreb * SK Sturm Graz
Manchester United FC Champions League Squad List
1 Mark John Bosnich 2 Gary Alexander Neville 3 Dennis Joseph Irwin
4 David May 6 Jakob Stam 7 David Robert J Beckham
8 Nicholas Butt 9 Andrew Alex. Cole 10 Edward Sheringham
11 Ryan Joseph Giggs 12 Philip Neville 14 Johan Jordi Cruyff
15 Lars Jesper Blomqvist 16 Roy Keane 17 Raimond RJH Van der Gouw
18 Paul Scholes 19 Dwight Yorke 20 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
21 Henning Berg 23 Michael Jamie Clegg 25 José Quinton Fortune
26 Massimo Taibi 31 Nicholas James Culkin 33 Mark Antony Wilson
34 Jonathan Greening
Group D P W D L F A PTS
Marseille 4 3 0 1 6 3 9
Manchester Utd 4 2 1 1 5 2 7
Croatia Zagreb 4 1 1 2 4 3 4
SK Sturm Graz 4 1 0 3 1 8 3
Tue Sep 14 Manchester United 0-0 Croatia Zagreb
Tue Sep 14 Marseille 2-0 SK Sturm Graz
Wed Sep 22 Croatia Zagreb 1-2 Marseille
Wed Sep 22 SK Sturm Graz 0-3 Manchester United
Wed Sep 29 Manchester United 2-1 Marseille
Wed Sep 29 Croatia Zagreb 3-0 SK Sturm Graz
Tue Oct 19 Marseille 1-0 Manchester United
Tue Oct 19 SK Sturm Graz 1-0 Croatia Zagreb
Wed Oct 27 7:45 NK Croatia v Man Utd
Wed Oct 27 7:45 Sturm Graz v Marseille
Tue Nov 2 7:45 Manchester United v SK Sturm Graz
Tue Nov 2 7:45 Marseille v Croatia Zagreb
Real Audio - Last weeks Daily News Sound Archive:
Click on INDEX at http://www.red11.org/sound
99/2000 fixtures/match reports are at
Mark Bosnich's Personal Details
MANCHESTER UNITED STATS v ALL teams on the Web
BSKYB Takeover news/pics at http://www.red11.org/mufc/bskyb.htm
Brian Kidd Press conference, pic, real audio
Peter Schmeichel's last Season at United!
*** FIXTURES ON 23/10/99 ***
Aston Villa v Wimbledon
Bradford City v Leicester City
Chelsea v Arsenal
Sheffield Wednesday v Coventry City
Southampton v Liverpool
Tottenham Hotspur v Manchester United
*** FIXTURES ON 24/10/99 ***
Everton v Leeds United
Watford v Middlesbrough
West Ham United v Sunderland
*** CONDENSED LEAGUE TABLE AS AT 18/10/99 ***
Pos Team P W D L F A GD Pts
1 Leeds United 11 8 1 2 21 12 9 25
2 Manchester United 11 7 3 1 27 16 11 24
3 Sunderland 11 7 2 2 20 9 11 23
4 Arsenal 11 7 1 3 17 10 7 22
5 Leicester City 11 6 2 3 19 14 5 20
6 Chelsea 9 6 1 2 15 4 11 19
7 Everton 11 5 2 4 17 14 3 17
8 Tottenham Hotspur 10 5 2 3 17 14 3 17
9 Aston Villa 11 5 2 4 12 11 1 17
10 West Ham United 9 5 1 3 11 8 3 16
11 Middlesbrough 11 5 0 6 13 15 -2 15
12 Liverpool 10 4 2 4 11 10 1 14
13 Coventry City 11 3 3 5 16 15 1 12
14 Southampton 10 3 2 5 17 21 -4 11
15 Wimbledon 11 2 5 4 17 25 -8 11
16 Watford 11 3 0 8 7 15 -8 9
17 Derby County 11 2 3 6 10 19 -9 9
18 Bradford City 10 2 2 6 6 16 -10 8
19 Newcastle United 11 2 1 8 21 27 -6 7
20 Sheffield Wednesday 11 1 1 9 8 27 -19 4
23-OCT-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Spurs (FA Premier League, AWAY)
27-OCT-1999 [19:45] Manchester Utd. vs NK Croatia (UEFA Champions League, AWAY)
30-OCT-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Aston Villa (FA Premier League, HOME)
02-NOV-1999 [19:45] Manchester Utd. vs Sturm Graz (UEFA Champions League, HOME)
06-NOV-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Leicester C (FA Premier League, HOME)
*** TEAM RESULTS - MANCHESTER UNITED -
UNITED Stats v All teams:
ALL FIXTURES at: http://www.red11.org/mufc/fix992000.htm
First Team Fixtures 1999/2000
All dates/times subject to change
Dates of possible cup ties also shown
Date Opposition Score Pos. Attend.
15/07/99 Melbourne Australia pre-season W 2-0 - 60,000
18/07/99 Sydney Australia pre-season W 1-0 - 78,000
21/07/99 Shanghai Shenhua pre-season W 2-0 - 80,000
24/07/99 Hong Kong South China pre-season W 2-0 - 40,000
1/08/99 Arsenal Wembley Charity Shield L 1-2 - 70,185
3/08/99 Omagh Town Omagh Bomb Fund W 9-0 - 7,000
4/08/99 Wigan Athletic friendly W 2-0 - 15,000
08/08/99 Everton Away PL D 1-1 10 39,141
11/08/99 Sheffield Wednesday Home PL W 4-0 3 54,941
14/08/99 Leeds United Home PL W 2-0 1 55,187
22/08/99 Arsenal Away PL W 2-1 1 38,147
25/08/99 Coventry City Away PL W 2-1 1 22,024
27/08/99 Monaco - Lazio ESC L 0-1 - 15,223
30/08/99 Newcastle United Home W 5-1 1 55,190
11/09/99 Liverpool Away W 3-2 1 44,929
14/09/99 Croatia Zagreb Home EC D 0-0 - 53,250
18/09/99 Wimbledon Home D 1-1 1 55,189
22/09/99 Sturm Graz Away EC W 3-0 - 16,480
25/09/99 Southampton Home D 3-3 1 55,249
29/09/99 Marseille Home EC W 2-1 - 54,276
3/10/99 Chelsea Away PL L 0-5 2 34,909
11/10/99 Sir Alex testimonial Home F L 2-4 [RED LEGENDS]
13/10/99 Aston Villa Away WC3 L 0-3 - 33,815
16/10/99 Watford Home PL W 4-1 2 55,188
19/10/99 Marseille Away EC L 0-1 - 57,745
23/10/99 Tottenham Hotspur Away PL 15.00
27/10/99 Croatia Zagreb Away EC 19.45
30/10/99 Aston Villa home PL 15.00
2/11/99 Sturm Graz Home EC 19.45
6/11/99 Leicester City Home PL 15.00
20/11/99 Derby County Away PL 15.00
24/11/99 ? EC
27/11/99 Sheffield Wednesday Away PL 15.00
30/11/99 Tokyo Palmeiras WCC 20.00
4/12/99 Everton Home PL 15.00
8/12/99 ? EC
18/12/99 West Ham United Away PL 15.00
26/12/99 Bradford City Home PL 15.00
28/12/99 Sunderland Away PL 20.00 "live on sky"
3/01/2000 Middlesborough Home PL 20.00
JAN 05-14 Brazil WTC [3-4 games]
06/01/2000 Necaxa (Mexico) Neut WTC 16.00
08/01/2000 Vasco da Gama (Brazil) Away WTC 16.00
11/01/2000 South Melbourne (Australia) N WTC 16.00
22/01/2000 Arsenal Home PL 15.00
5/02/2000 Coventry City Home PL 15.00
12/02/2000 Newcastle United Away PL 15.00
26/02/2000 Wimbledon Away PL 15.00
1/03/2000 ? EC
4/03/2000 Liverpool Home PL 15.00
8/03/2000 ? EC
11/03/2000 Derby County Home PL 15.00
15/03/2000 ? EC
18/03/2000 Leicester City Away PL 15.00
22/03/2000 ? EC
25/03/2000 Bradford City Away PL 15.00
1/04/2000 West Ham United Home PL 15.00
5/04/2000 ? EC qf i
8/04/2000 Middlesborough Away PL 15.00
15/04/2000 Sunderland Home PL 15.00
19/04/2000 ? EC qf ii
22/04/2000 Southampton Away PL 15.00
24/04/2000 Chelsea Home PL 15.00
29/04/2000 West Ham United Away PL 15.00
3/05/2000 ? EC sf i
6/05/2000 Tottenham Hotspur Home PL 15.00
10/05/2000 ? EC sf ii
14/05/2000 Aston Villa Away PL 15.00
24/05/2000 ? EC Final
Subject: Who do you consider to be the best player between Cantona & Best?
Submitted by: david gwynne
Email address: firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: Ask the StatMan
question: who do you consider to be the best player between cantona & Best?
Well, in my humble opinion having seen George Best 'live' for 6 seasons and Eric for
5, Best was the better all-round individual, and in fact I doubt if we in this country
will ever see a player as gifted. To give an example of his achievements, he was voted
English and European Footballer Of The Year in 1968, and was United's leading
scorer for 5 successive seasons between 1968-72, not I must add playing in a
central striking role a la Cole or Yorke. 178 goals in 466 appearances spread over
11 years. Eric was the most charismatic signing United have made, he lifted a good
side into becoming a great side, and he must take a lot of credit for the 6 trophies
United lifted between 1993-97. 64 goals in 143 appearances. Those who who saw
both players have been very lucky indeed.
Do YOU have a question for the Statman?
Go to http://www.red11.org/statman
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Subject: - This is not a joke!! Comment from -Bill in Winnipeg
>SAINTS HOPE FOR LENIENCY ON HUGHES
>Southampton are hoping for leniency from the Football Association after they
>and striker Mark Hughes were charged following the Welsh star's appearance
>in Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson's testimonial last week while
>Hughes, 35, played the final 20 minutes of the match at Old Trafford for a
>Manchester United XI and scored two goals - including a spectacular 25-yard
Can anyone in their right mind believe this pile of horse feathers? If
anything, Hughes should be charged with "bringing the game into repute"
rather than "disrepute" with his performance. In a day when nutters like
Dennis Wise run rampant, a player like Hughes reminds people what is great
about the game. The supporters love the guy, no matter which team employs
him, and the Football Association, in its limited wisdom, decides to attack
him. If their only excuse is that they are following the letter of the
law, then they had better find room in their organization for all the Nazis
who said they "were just following orders".
What an absolute blight on the world's most beautiful game.
-All the best to Manchester United supporters everywhere! I wish I could
spend some time with every one of you.
-Bill in Winnipeg
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Subject: Sir Alex vs Sir Matt
Busby better on average
By David Miller
IS SIR Alex Ferguson a tactically superior manager to Sir Matt Busby?
The statistics over their respective six and five seasons in the
European Cup/Champions' League suggest Busby has a slight edge,
particularly in performance against front-rank opposition.
It is an irony that Manchester United's first European defeat in two
seasons, 1-0 against Marseilles on Tuesday , should come in one of their
most assured defensive displays. Some critics accused them of casualness
in Marseilles. Yet it is a truism that while you win some matches you
should have lost - such as last season's final - you lose some you
deserve to win. Or at least to draw.
United's defensive authority against Marseilles exhibited a relaxed
proficiency on a par with Liverpool in the era of Bob Paisley, or of
Nottingham Forest under Brian Clough.
Roy Keane, Jaap Stam and Co played a possession game almost devoid of
unforced errors, Marseilles winning with a goal from one of only three
Defence has not especially been the hallmark of Ferguson's teams in the
six seasons since 1993/94. The goal aggregate has been 75 for and 45
against in 45 matches, or 55:42 in 41 matches if lopsided scores are
deducted against minnow opponents such as Kosice and Brondby. The
comparative figures for Busby's years - even with a crippled post-Munich
side for the 1958 semi-final against Milan - is 100:45 in 41 matches;
or, deducting big scores against Anderlecht, Shamrock, HJK of Finland,
Hibernians of Malta and Waterford, 56:39 in 33 matches. This is
fractionally more goals conceded per match but a better goal average.
Ferguson and Busby have concentrated on attack, but the goal average of
the doomed Byrne-Edwards-Taylor side and their
Foulkes-Stiles-Charlton-Best successors is superior to Ferguson's teams.
It is even more so if the results against their respective leading
contemporary clubs are extracted. In 21 encounters with Barcelona (4),
Juventus (6), Borussia Dortmund, Feyenoord, Monaco, Inter, Marseilles (2
each) and Bayern, Ferguson's men have an aggregate of 28:29.
Against this, Busby's sides' record over 23 matches - Real Madrid and
Milan (4 each), Benfica (3), Borussia Dortmund, Athletic Bilbao, Dukla,
Red Star, Partizan and Gornik (2 each) - was 42:34. Was the opposition
in Busby's time less awesome? I don't think so.
An essential difference is the new format - a league. This requires a
sharper mental perspective than home-and-away knock-out rounds. On
Tuesday, United appeared to have it right until William Gallas, an
unmarked defender, made a spectacular run. Possibly United's error was
not to have raised the tempo earlier, the way they vainly did when one
down over the last 20 minutes.
The problem is that of being involved in two simultaneous leagues. Even
though Busby had a squad, it must be wondered whether they could have
coped with the present demands any better than Ferguson's.
At least United now have two less demanding, remaining ties in Group D,
against Croatia Zagreb and Sturm Graz, a point from the first being
enough to take them through.
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Subject: 365 - UNITED PULLED OUT OF DEAL FOR RIVALDO
Manchester United wanted to sign Rivaldo in the summer but could not afford
the Brazilian superstar.
Chairman Martin Edwards has revealed that Rivaldo was wanted for Old
Trafford but even the richest club in the world could not fund the deal.
"There is no doubt at all, that we would have loved to have had the
Brazilian here, but the problem was that Barcelona don't want to sell him.
If they did what would the transfer fee be?," Edwards explained.
"They paid £18million for him so they are going to want £20million plus,
and on top of that his personal terms are at least three times above what
we pay our top player at the moment.
"We have certain constraints as a public company in that we have
responsibilities to the City and if bringing in certain players means
absolutely destroying our wages structure it becomes difficult for us.
"We have spent £40million on players in the last two seasons and that is
more than we have made."
The United supremo dismisses speculation United were chasing Juventus
midfielder Edgar Davids during the close season saying: "As far as Edgar
Davids is concerned there was never any truth in that at all, at no time
did Alex Ferguson ever mention Edgar Davids to me."
Edwards uses the latest edition of the club's official magazine to put
across the truth to United's supporters saying he hopes Roy Keane will stay
at Old Trafford.
He said: "We did offer Roy more than our highest paid player at the moment.
All I know is that he said he wanted more time to think about it and didn't
want to commit himself at the start of the season."
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Subject: BBC - Man Utd cannot afford Rivaldo
Manchester United have admitted they could not afford to buy Brazilian
The Barcelona midfielder's fee and wages were beyond the richest club in
United chairman Martin Edwards said Barca would want "£20m-plus" while
Rivaldo's wage demands were "at least three times above" what United pay
their top earner.
"We have certain constraints as a public company in that we have
responsibilities to the City and if bringing in certain players means
absolutely destroying our wages structure it becomes difficult for us," he
Edwards dismissed speculation United were also chasing Juventus midfielder
Edgar Davids and told the club's official magazine that he hopes Roy Keane
will stay at Old Trafford and sign a new contract.
But he revealed his doubts about whether manager Sir Alex Ferguson would
want to stay beyond his current deal when it expires in three years time.
"If he is still there in the background with all the success he has had, is
that going to be a comfort or a hindrance to any successor?" he asked.
"He is a hands-on person and I think it would be difficult for him to
resist that - but we have got three years to think about it."
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Subject: NEVILLE'S ON COMEBACK TRAIL [Thursday news before Reserves game ]
Gary Neville could make his return from his groin injury alongside David
May in tonight's reserve match against Bolton.
May will definitely play at the Reebok Stadium as he continues his comeback
from the knee injury which has sidelined him since the start of August and
he could also be joined by Neville.
Neville has made good progress since he tore an abductor muscle playing for
England at the start of September and is poised to return.
However he claims it is down to the coaching staff and the physios to
decide if he is ready.
``The manager will speak to the physios and Steve McClaren will speak to
the physios and they will decide what's the best way to go,'' he said on
``It may be that I play tomorrow night and that will be fine by me or it
may be that they think another week and we play City next week in the
Senior Cup at Gigg Lane so it might be that we wait for that game.
``I don't know. The manager and the physios will decide that and all I can
do is train every day, work hard and hope I will get a game soon.''
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Subject: United cold war
By Graham Hunter
Martin Edwards last night increased the impression that relations are
worsening between himself and his manager when he warned there may not be a
place for Sir Alex Ferguson at Old Trafford when his contract ends in 2003.
Edwards evidently feels that Ferguson would interfere in the work of
Manchester United's next manager, hindering his progress, and even
speculates the Scot may not want to remain at the club.
Answering whether he saw Ferguson staying at United after giving up the
manager's job, Edwards said: 'That is a difficult one because there are a
number of things to consider.
'First of all, remember when Sir Matt Busby retired, somebody else came in.
'If Sir Alex is still there in the background with all the success he has
had is that going to be a comfort or a hindrance to any successor?
'Secondly, is that something Sir Alex wants? It would be very difficult for
him to be there without actually feeling a need to get involved. He is a
hands-on person and I think it would be difficult for him to resist that.'
Yet Ferguson only recently confirmed he specifically wants to have the role
of general manager created for him and he thinks he has the discipline not
Last season's Treble-winning boss revealed: 'A lot of people get very
frightened with those words "general manager" because in Italy it is the
dominant role and there is that great fear at Old Trafford about the Sir
Matt Busby years and his influence on the players.
'But that's the kind of active role I would enjoy with the trust of whoever
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Subject: Edwards on Fergie future ««
Martin Edwards feels Sir Alex Ferguson would not want an 'upstairs' role
when his deal is up and there have been no moves to find a successor.
Edwards, the man destined to be chairman of the Manchester United plc - at
present his role is head of the football club - says he has a feeling Sir
Alex Ferguson will not want to stay on at the club when his contract ends
in three years.
The United manager has said he will retire after he reaches 60, and Edwards
says he may not wish to take a back seat after being in charge for such a
long time. No plans have been made to find a successor, and any names
mentioned at present are pure speculation.
He also talks about the future of the Premiership, expressing a view that
he would support moves to create a two division elite league made up of the
current top twenty clubs, plus the leading 12 from Division One. Edwards
reckons forming two divisions made up of sixteen clubs would be the only
way to get such a proposal through and would help keep England in step with
Edwards faces another lively reception at United plc's annual meeting next
He is bound to come under fire after selling a large percentage of his
shares earlier this month. Independent supporters groups will once again
use the meeting to put across their viewpoints.
The groups wanted him to make any surplus shares he wished to sell
available to the fans, but Edwards struck a deal with the financial
institutions, feeling the £40 million plus needed to but part of his stake
was beyond the reach of supporters.
United shares are available to anyone wishing to invest through normal
One controversial proposal being put to the AGM will be a plan to launch a
dividend reinvestment scheme. Instead of receiving cheques each time the
club pays a dividend, shareholders would get additional shares.
The AGM is on Thursday, November 18.
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Subject: Blow to Ferguson's retirement scheme - Guardian
Friday October 22, 1999
Sir Alex Ferguson's ambitions to pursue an "upstairs role" at Old Trafford
when his contract expires in three years have been placed in doubt by the
Manchester United chairman Martin Edwards.
Edwards suggested it may be inappropriate for Ferguson to stay at the club
after his reign as manager comes to an end. "If he is still there in the
background with all the success he has had, is that going to be a comfort
or a hindrance to any successor?" said Edwards.
He also questioned whether Ferguson would enjoy a behind-the-scenes
position "without feeling a need to be involved. He is a hands-on person
and I think it would be difficult for him to resist that".
Edwards has revealed that United were keen to sign the Brazilian Rivaldo in
the summer. But he said that, even if his club side Barcelona had wanted to
sell him, the price tag would have been too high.
"They are going to want £20m plus," said Edwards, "and on top of that his
personal terms are at least three times above what we pay our top player."
He said speculation that United had chased Juventus' Edgar Davids was untrue.
• Paul Gascoigne could join Mark Hughes in hot water with the Football
Association after playing in Sir Alex Ferguson's testimonial while serving
a two-match ban. Hughes has already been charged for playing while suspended.
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Subject: United still confident for crucial trip to Zagreb
By George Grant
Suddenly Manchester United's jaunt to Croatia Zagreb next week has become
less of a formality.
Sir Alex Ferguson had hoped the pressure would be off going into the
Champions League clash with Ossie Ardiles' side.
His master plan was that United would have taken at least a point from
Marseille on Tuesday night and with three points virtually guaranteed
against Sturm Graz in their final game, they could collect the magic total
of 11 to qualify - regardless of what happens in Croatia.
It has not quite worked out that way and United trail Group D lead-ers
Marseille by two points following their surprise 1-0 defeat on the Stade
However, Sturm Graz beat Zagreb to maintain United's three-point cushion
over the Croatians.
United should still qualify but a defeat in Zagreb could hole their
qualification hopes below the waterline.
Skipper Roy Keane has no doubts what they need to do on Wednesday. 'We've
got to go to Zagreb and get a better result - like a win,' he said.
'Nobody likes getting beaten and we have the chance to bounce back next
week and that will be the sign of a good team.
'We're capable of doing that and that's what we must do.'
Other results could help United's cause in the final two group games but
Keane claims they cannot rely on outside help.
'The other results don't bother me and at the end of the day we've got to
concentrate on our own performance. If we had started against Marseille
like we played after they scored, then we would have won. We must go to
Zagreb and win now and we're more than capable of that.'
Zagreb also need to win to boost their qualification hopes and defender
Phil Neville believes this will suit United. He said. 'They will have to
attack and they will leave spaces for us to exploit.'
Neville feels United are not playing with last season's attacking swagger
when they went to Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan and Juventus and
scored nine goals in total.
The England defender said: 'We sat back too much in the game against
Marseille and that was disappointing. That's not our style and we need to
return to the way we've been playing.'
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