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www.red11.org DAILY NEWS
Date: Fri Oct 22 07:34:31 GMT+00:00 1999
Mail: barry@www.red11.org

This Issue:
1. Who do you consider to be the best player between Cantona & Best?
2. This is not a joke!! Comment from -Bill in Winnipeg
3. Sir Alex vs Sir Matt
5. BBC - Man Utd cannot afford Rivaldo 
6. NEVILLE'S ON COMEBACK TRAIL nullThursday news before Reserves game null
7. United cold war 
8. Edwards on Fergie future «« 
9. Blow to Ferguson's retirement scheme - Guardian
10. United still confident for crucial trip to Zagreb



Barry Comment:
I was out last night so no coverage of the Bolton Reserve match before tomorrow.
Today's issue full of all the Martin Edwards controversial stuff.
+ an excellent Busby v Fergie comparison?

ECL Group D  ** Manchester United **
Olympique de Marseille * NK Croatia Zagreb * SK Sturm Graz

Manchester United FC Champions League Squad List
 1 Mark John Bosnich      2 Gary Alexander Neville 3 Dennis Joseph Irwin
 4 David May              6 Jakob Stam             7 David Robert J Beckham
 8 Nicholas Butt          9 Andrew Alex. Cole      10 Edward Sheringham
11 Ryan Joseph Giggs     12 Philip Neville         14 Johan Jordi Cruyff
15 Lars Jesper Blomqvist 16 Roy Keane           17 Raimond RJH Van der Gouw
18 Paul Scholes          19 Dwight Yorke           20 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
21 Henning Berg          23 Michael Jamie Clegg    25 José Quinton Fortune
26 Massimo Taibi         31 Nicholas James Culkin  33 Mark Antony Wilson
34 Jonathan Greening

Group D         P   W   D   L   F   A  PTS
Marseille       4   3   0   1   6   3   9
Manchester Utd  4   2   1   1   5   2   7
Croatia Zagreb  4   1   1   2   4   3   4
SK Sturm Graz   4   1   0   3   1   8   3

Tue Sep 14 Manchester United    0-0 Croatia Zagreb   
Tue Sep 14 Marseille            2-0 SK Sturm Graz   
Wed Sep 22 Croatia Zagreb       1-2 Marseille   
Wed Sep 22 SK Sturm Graz        0-3 Manchester United
Wed Sep 29 Manchester United    2-1 Marseille   
Wed Sep 29 Croatia Zagreb       3-0 SK Sturm Graz 
Tue Oct 19 Marseille            1-0 Manchester United   
Tue Oct 19 SK Sturm Graz        1-0 Croatia Zagreb 
Wed Oct 27 7:45 NK Croatia           v Man Utd
Wed Oct 27 7:45 Sturm Graz           v Marseille
Tue Nov  2 7:45 Manchester United    v SK Sturm Graz   
Tue Nov  2 7:45 Marseille            v Croatia Zagreb 

Real Audio - Last weeks Daily News Sound Archive:
Click on INDEX at http://www.red11.org/sound


99/2000 fixtures/match reports are at

Mark Bosnich's Personal Details 



Previous News:
 BSKYB Takeover news/pics at http://www.red11.org/mufc/bskyb.htm
  Brian Kidd Press conference, pic, real audio
 Peter Schmeichel's last Season at United!

*** FIXTURES ON 23/10/99 ***
         Aston Villa  v  Wimbledon
       Bradford City  v  Leicester City
             Chelsea  v  Arsenal
 Sheffield Wednesday  v  Coventry City
         Southampton  v  Liverpool
   Tottenham Hotspur  v  Manchester United

*** FIXTURES ON 24/10/99 ***
             Everton  v  Leeds United
             Watford  v  Middlesbrough
     West Ham United  v  Sunderland


Pos Team                  P   W   D   L   F   A   GD  Pts
 1  Leeds United         11   8   1   2  21  12    9   25
 2  Manchester United    11   7   3   1  27  16   11   24
 3  Sunderland           11   7   2   2  20   9   11   23
 4  Arsenal              11   7   1   3  17  10    7   22
 5  Leicester City       11   6   2   3  19  14    5   20
 6  Chelsea               9   6   1   2  15   4   11   19
 7  Everton              11   5   2   4  17  14    3   17
 8  Tottenham Hotspur    10   5   2   3  17  14    3   17
 9  Aston Villa          11   5   2   4  12  11    1   17
10  West Ham United       9   5   1   3  11   8    3   16
11  Middlesbrough        11   5   0   6  13  15   -2   15
12  Liverpool            10   4   2   4  11  10    1   14
13  Coventry City        11   3   3   5  16  15    1   12
14  Southampton          10   3   2   5  17  21   -4   11
15  Wimbledon            11   2   5   4  17  25   -8   11
16  Watford              11   3   0   8   7  15   -8    9
17  Derby County         11   2   3   6  10  19   -9    9
18  Bradford City        10   2   2   6   6  16  -10    8
19  Newcastle United     11   2   1   8  21  27   -6    7
20  Sheffield Wednesday  11   1   1   9   8  27  -19    4

23-OCT-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Spurs  (FA Premier League, AWAY)
27-OCT-1999 [19:45] Manchester Utd. vs NK Croatia  (UEFA Champions League, AWAY)
30-OCT-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Aston Villa  (FA Premier League, HOME)
02-NOV-1999 [19:45] Manchester Utd. vs Sturm Graz  (UEFA Champions League, HOME)
06-NOV-1999 [15:00] Manchester Utd. vs Leicester C  (FA Premier League, HOME)


UNITED Stats v All teams:
ALL FIXTURES at: http://www.red11.org/mufc/fix992000.htm
First Team Fixtures 1999/2000
All dates/times subject to change
Dates of possible cup ties also shown

Date        Opposition                        Score   Pos.   Attend.
15/07/99    Melbourne Australia   pre-season  W  2-0     -    60,000
18/07/99    Sydney    Australia   pre-season  W  1-0     -    78,000
21/07/99    Shanghai  Shenhua     pre-season  W  2-0     -    80,000
24/07/99    Hong Kong South China pre-season  W  2-0     -    40,000

 1/08/99    Arsenal   Wembley Charity Shield  L  1-2     -    70,185
 3/08/99    Omagh Town Omagh Bomb Fund        W  9-0     -     7,000
 4/08/99    Wigan Athletic friendly           W  2-0     -    15,000 
08/08/99    Everton                  Away PL  D  1-1    10    39,141
11/08/99    Sheffield Wednesday      Home PL  W  4-0     3    54,941
14/08/99    Leeds United             Home PL  W  2-0     1    55,187
22/08/99    Arsenal                  Away PL  W  2-1     1    38,147
25/08/99    Coventry City            Away PL  W  2-1     1    22,024 
27/08/99    Monaco - Lazio               ESC  L  0-1     -    15,223
30/08/99    Newcastle United         Home     W  5-1     1    55,190
11/09/99    Liverpool                Away     W  3-2     1    44,929
14/09/99    Croatia Zagreb           Home EC  D  0-0     -    53,250
18/09/99    Wimbledon                Home     D  1-1     1    55,189
22/09/99    Sturm Graz               Away EC  W  3-0     -    16,480
25/09/99    Southampton              Home     D  3-3     1    55,249
29/09/99    Marseille                Home EC  W  2-1     -    54,276
 3/10/99    Chelsea                  Away PL  L  0-5     2    34,909
11/10/99    Sir Alex testimonial     Home F   L  2-4   [RED LEGENDS]      
13/10/99    Aston Villa              Away WC3 L  0-3     -    33,815
16/10/99    Watford                  Home PL  W  4-1     2    55,188
19/10/99    Marseille                Away EC  L  0-1     -    57,745  

23/10/99    Tottenham Hotspur        Away PL   15.00 
27/10/99    Croatia Zagreb           Away EC   19.45
30/10/99    Aston Villa              home PL   15.00
 2/11/99    Sturm Graz               Home EC   19.45 
 6/11/99    Leicester City           Home PL   15.00
20/11/99    Derby County             Away PL   15.00
24/11/99    ?     EC
27/11/99    Sheffield Wednesday      Away PL   15.00
30/11/99    Tokyo  Palmeiras         WCC       20.00
 4/12/99    Everton                  Home PL   15.00
 8/12/99    ?     EC
18/12/99    West Ham United          Away PL   15.00
26/12/99    Bradford City            Home PL   15.00
28/12/99    Sunderland               Away PL   20.00  "live on sky"
 3/01/2000  Middlesborough           Home PL   20.00
 JAN 05-14  Brazil WTC [3-4 games]
06/01/2000  Necaxa (Mexico)          Neut WTC  16.00
08/01/2000  Vasco da Gama (Brazil)   Away WTC  16.00
11/01/2000  South Melbourne (Australia) N WTC  16.00
22/01/2000  Arsenal                  Home PL   15.00
 5/02/2000  Coventry City            Home PL   15.00
12/02/2000  Newcastle United         Away PL   15.00
26/02/2000  Wimbledon                Away PL   15.00
 1/03/2000  ?   EC
 4/03/2000  Liverpool                Home PL   15.00
 8/03/2000  ?   EC
11/03/2000  Derby County             Home PL   15.00
15/03/2000  ?   EC
18/03/2000  Leicester City           Away PL   15.00
22/03/2000  ?   EC
25/03/2000  Bradford City            Away PL   15.00
 1/04/2000  West Ham United          Home PL   15.00
 5/04/2000  ?   EC qf i
 8/04/2000  Middlesborough           Away PL   15.00
15/04/2000  Sunderland               Home PL   15.00
19/04/2000  ?   EC qf ii
22/04/2000  Southampton              Away PL   15.00
24/04/2000  Chelsea                  Home PL   15.00
29/04/2000  West Ham United          Away PL   15.00
 3/05/2000  ?   EC sf i
 6/05/2000  Tottenham Hotspur        Home PL   15.00
10/05/2000  ?   EC sf ii
14/05/2000  Aston Villa              Away PL   15.00
24/05/2000  ?   EC Final



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Subject: Who do you consider to be the best player between Cantona & Best? Submitted by: david gwynne Email address: gwynnie_2000@yahoo.com Subject: Ask the StatMan visitor_country: england visitor_age: 20 question: who do you consider to be the best player between cantona & Best? ============================================================================ Well, in my humble opinion having seen George Best 'live' for 6 seasons and Eric for 5, Best was the better all-round individual, and in fact I doubt if we in this country will ever see a player as gifted. To give an example of his achievements, he was voted English and European Footballer Of The Year in 1968, and was United's leading scorer for 5 successive seasons between 1968-72, not I must add playing in a central striking role a la Cole or Yorke. 178 goals in 466 appearances spread over 11 years. Eric was the most charismatic signing United have made, he lifted a good side into becoming a great side, and he must take a lot of credit for the 6 trophies United lifted between 1993-97. 64 goals in 143 appearances. Those who who saw both players have been very lucky indeed. Do YOU have a question for the Statman? Go to http://www.red11.org/statman
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Subject: - This is not a joke!! Comment from -Bill in Winnipeg >SAINTS HOPE FOR LENIENCY ON HUGHES >Southampton are hoping for leniency from the Football Association after they >and striker Mark Hughes were charged following the Welsh star's appearance >in Manchester United boss Sir Alex Ferguson's testimonial last week while >banned. >Hughes, 35, played the final 20 minutes of the match at Old Trafford for a >Manchester United XI and scored two goals - including a spectacular 25-yard >left-foot shot. Can anyone in their right mind believe this pile of horse feathers? If anything, Hughes should be charged with "bringing the game into repute" rather than "disrepute" with his performance. In a day when nutters like Dennis Wise run rampant, a player like Hughes reminds people what is great about the game. The supporters love the guy, no matter which team employs him, and the Football Association, in its limited wisdom, decides to attack him. If their only excuse is that they are following the letter of the law, then they had better find room in their organization for all the Nazis who said they "were just following orders". What an absolute blight on the world's most beautiful game. -All the best to Manchester United supporters everywhere! I wish I could spend some time with every one of you. -Bill in Winnipeg
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Subject: Sir Alex vs Sir Matt Busby better on average By David Miller IS SIR Alex Ferguson a tactically superior manager to Sir Matt Busby? The statistics over their respective six and five seasons in the European Cup/Champions' League suggest Busby has a slight edge, particularly in performance against front-rank opposition. It is an irony that Manchester United's first European defeat in two seasons, 1-0 against Marseilles on Tuesday , should come in one of their most assured defensive displays. Some critics accused them of casualness in Marseilles. Yet it is a truism that while you win some matches you should have lost - such as last season's final - you lose some you deserve to win. Or at least to draw. United's defensive authority against Marseilles exhibited a relaxed proficiency on a par with Liverpool in the era of Bob Paisley, or of Nottingham Forest under Brian Clough. Roy Keane, Jaap Stam and Co played a possession game almost devoid of unforced errors, Marseilles winning with a goal from one of only three clear-cut chances. Defence has not especially been the hallmark of Ferguson's teams in the six seasons since 1993/94. The goal aggregate has been 75 for and 45 against in 45 matches, or 55:42 in 41 matches if lopsided scores are deducted against minnow opponents such as Kosice and Brondby. The comparative figures for Busby's years - even with a crippled post-Munich side for the 1958 semi-final against Milan - is 100:45 in 41 matches; or, deducting big scores against Anderlecht, Shamrock, HJK of Finland, Hibernians of Malta and Waterford, 56:39 in 33 matches. This is fractionally more goals conceded per match but a better goal average. Ferguson and Busby have concentrated on attack, but the goal average of the doomed Byrne-Edwards-Taylor side and their Foulkes-Stiles-Charlton-Best successors is superior to Ferguson's teams. It is even more so if the results against their respective leading contemporary clubs are extracted. In 21 encounters with Barcelona (4), Juventus (6), Borussia Dortmund, Feyenoord, Monaco, Inter, Marseilles (2 each) and Bayern, Ferguson's men have an aggregate of 28:29. Against this, Busby's sides' record over 23 matches - Real Madrid and Milan (4 each), Benfica (3), Borussia Dortmund, Athletic Bilbao, Dukla, Red Star, Partizan and Gornik (2 each) - was 42:34. Was the opposition in Busby's time less awesome? I don't think so. An essential difference is the new format - a league. This requires a sharper mental perspective than home-and-away knock-out rounds. On Tuesday, United appeared to have it right until William Gallas, an unmarked defender, made a spectacular run. Possibly United's error was not to have raised the tempo earlier, the way they vainly did when one down over the last 20 minutes. The problem is that of being involved in two simultaneous leagues. Even though Busby had a squad, it must be wondered whether they could have coped with the present demands any better than Ferguson's. At least United now have two less demanding, remaining ties in Group D, against Croatia Zagreb and Sturm Graz, a point from the first being enough to take them through.
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Subject: 365 - UNITED PULLED OUT OF DEAL FOR RIVALDO Manchester United wanted to sign Rivaldo in the summer but could not afford the Brazilian superstar. Chairman Martin Edwards has revealed that Rivaldo was wanted for Old Trafford but even the richest club in the world could not fund the deal. "There is no doubt at all, that we would have loved to have had the Brazilian here, but the problem was that Barcelona don't want to sell him. If they did what would the transfer fee be?," Edwards explained. "They paid £18million for him so they are going to want £20million plus, and on top of that his personal terms are at least three times above what we pay our top player at the moment. "We have certain constraints as a public company in that we have responsibilities to the City and if bringing in certain players means absolutely destroying our wages structure it becomes difficult for us. "We have spent £40million on players in the last two seasons and that is more than we have made." The United supremo dismisses speculation United were chasing Juventus midfielder Edgar Davids during the close season saying: "As far as Edgar Davids is concerned there was never any truth in that at all, at no time did Alex Ferguson ever mention Edgar Davids to me." Edwards uses the latest edition of the club's official magazine to put across the truth to United's supporters saying he hopes Roy Keane will stay at Old Trafford. He said: "We did offer Roy more than our highest paid player at the moment. All I know is that he said he wanted more time to think about it and didn't want to commit himself at the start of the season."
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Subject: BBC - Man Utd cannot afford Rivaldo Manchester United have admitted they could not afford to buy Brazilian superstar Rivaldo. The Barcelona midfielder's fee and wages were beyond the richest club in the world. United chairman Martin Edwards said Barca would want "£20m-plus" while Rivaldo's wage demands were "at least three times above" what United pay their top earner. "We have certain constraints as a public company in that we have responsibilities to the City and if bringing in certain players means absolutely destroying our wages structure it becomes difficult for us," he explained. Edwards dismissed speculation United were also chasing Juventus midfielder Edgar Davids and told the club's official magazine that he hopes Roy Keane will stay at Old Trafford and sign a new contract. But he revealed his doubts about whether manager Sir Alex Ferguson would want to stay beyond his current deal when it expires in three years time. "If he is still there in the background with all the success he has had, is that going to be a comfort or a hindrance to any successor?" he asked. "He is a hands-on person and I think it would be difficult for him to resist that - but we have got three years to think about it."
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Subject: NEVILLE'S ON COMEBACK TRAIL [Thursday news before Reserves game ] Gary Neville could make his return from his groin injury alongside David May in tonight's reserve match against Bolton. May will definitely play at the Reebok Stadium as he continues his comeback from the knee injury which has sidelined him since the start of August and he could also be joined by Neville. Neville has made good progress since he tore an abductor muscle playing for England at the start of September and is poised to return. However he claims it is down to the coaching staff and the physios to decide if he is ready. ``The manager will speak to the physios and Steve McClaren will speak to the physios and they will decide what's the best way to go,'' he said on MUTV. ``It may be that I play tomorrow night and that will be fine by me or it may be that they think another week and we play City next week in the Senior Cup at Gigg Lane so it might be that we wait for that game. ``I don't know. The manager and the physios will decide that and all I can do is train every day, work hard and hope I will get a game soon.''
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Subject: United cold war By Graham Hunter Martin Edwards last night increased the impression that relations are worsening between himself and his manager when he warned there may not be a place for Sir Alex Ferguson at Old Trafford when his contract ends in 2003. Edwards evidently feels that Ferguson would interfere in the work of Manchester United's next manager, hindering his progress, and even speculates the Scot may not want to remain at the club. Answering whether he saw Ferguson staying at United after giving up the manager's job, Edwards said: 'That is a difficult one because there are a number of things to consider. 'First of all, remember when Sir Matt Busby retired, somebody else came in. 'If Sir Alex is still there in the background with all the success he has had is that going to be a comfort or a hindrance to any successor? 'Secondly, is that something Sir Alex wants? It would be very difficult for him to be there without actually feeling a need to get involved. He is a hands-on person and I think it would be difficult for him to resist that.' Yet Ferguson only recently confirmed he specifically wants to have the role of general manager created for him and he thinks he has the discipline not to interfere. Last season's Treble-winning boss revealed: 'A lot of people get very frightened with those words "general manager" because in Italy it is the dominant role and there is that great fear at Old Trafford about the Sir Matt Busby years and his influence on the players. 'But that's the kind of active role I would enjoy with the trust of whoever replaces me.'
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Subject: Edwards on Fergie future «« Martin Edwards feels Sir Alex Ferguson would not want an 'upstairs' role when his deal is up and there have been no moves to find a successor. Edwards, the man destined to be chairman of the Manchester United plc - at present his role is head of the football club - says he has a feeling Sir Alex Ferguson will not want to stay on at the club when his contract ends in three years. The United manager has said he will retire after he reaches 60, and Edwards says he may not wish to take a back seat after being in charge for such a long time. No plans have been made to find a successor, and any names mentioned at present are pure speculation. He also talks about the future of the Premiership, expressing a view that he would support moves to create a two division elite league made up of the current top twenty clubs, plus the leading 12 from Division One. Edwards reckons forming two divisions made up of sixteen clubs would be the only way to get such a proposal through and would help keep England in step with Europe. Edwards faces another lively reception at United plc's annual meeting next month. He is bound to come under fire after selling a large percentage of his shares earlier this month. Independent supporters groups will once again use the meeting to put across their viewpoints. The groups wanted him to make any surplus shares he wished to sell available to the fans, but Edwards struck a deal with the financial institutions, feeling the £40 million plus needed to but part of his stake was beyond the reach of supporters. United shares are available to anyone wishing to invest through normal channels. One controversial proposal being put to the AGM will be a plan to launch a dividend reinvestment scheme. Instead of receiving cheques each time the club pays a dividend, shareholders would get additional shares. The AGM is on Thursday, November 18.
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Subject: Blow to Ferguson's retirement scheme - Guardian Friday October 22, 1999 Sir Alex Ferguson's ambitions to pursue an "upstairs role" at Old Trafford when his contract expires in three years have been placed in doubt by the Manchester United chairman Martin Edwards. Edwards suggested it may be inappropriate for Ferguson to stay at the club after his reign as manager comes to an end. "If he is still there in the background with all the success he has had, is that going to be a comfort or a hindrance to any successor?" said Edwards. He also questioned whether Ferguson would enjoy a behind-the-scenes position "without feeling a need to be involved. He is a hands-on person and I think it would be difficult for him to resist that". Edwards has revealed that United were keen to sign the Brazilian Rivaldo in the summer. But he said that, even if his club side Barcelona had wanted to sell him, the price tag would have been too high. "They are going to want £20m plus," said Edwards, "and on top of that his personal terms are at least three times above what we pay our top player." He said speculation that United had chased Juventus' Edgar Davids was untrue. • Paul Gascoigne could join Mark Hughes in hot water with the Football Association after playing in Sir Alex Ferguson's testimonial while serving a two-match ban. Hughes has already been charged for playing while suspended.
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Subject: United still confident for crucial trip to Zagreb By George Grant Suddenly Manchester United's jaunt to Croatia Zagreb next week has become less of a formality. Sir Alex Ferguson had hoped the pressure would be off going into the Champions League clash with Ossie Ardiles' side. His master plan was that United would have taken at least a point from Marseille on Tuesday night and with three points virtually guaranteed against Sturm Graz in their final game, they could collect the magic total of 11 to qualify - regardless of what happens in Croatia. It has not quite worked out that way and United trail Group D lead-ers Marseille by two points following their surprise 1-0 defeat on the Stade Velodrome paddy-field. However, Sturm Graz beat Zagreb to maintain United's three-point cushion over the Croatians. United should still qualify but a defeat in Zagreb could hole their qualification hopes below the waterline. Skipper Roy Keane has no doubts what they need to do on Wednesday. 'We've got to go to Zagreb and get a better result - like a win,' he said. 'Nobody likes getting beaten and we have the chance to bounce back next week and that will be the sign of a good team. 'We're capable of doing that and that's what we must do.' Other results could help United's cause in the final two group games but Keane claims they cannot rely on outside help. 'The other results don't bother me and at the end of the day we've got to concentrate on our own performance. If we had started against Marseille like we played after they scored, then we would have won. We must go to Zagreb and win now and we're more than capable of that.' Zagreb also need to win to boost their qualification hopes and defender Phil Neville believes this will suit United. He said. 'They will have to attack and they will leave spaces for us to exploit.' Neville feels United are not playing with last season's attacking swagger when they went to Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan and Juventus and scored nine goals in total. The England defender said: 'We sat back too much in the game against Marseille and that was disappointing. That's not our style and we need to return to the way we've been playing.'
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